How reliable and accurate is ETA 2893 movement? Does anyone know about it? Which watch brand use this movement besides Vogard? :-S:-S
picard
I love the recent addition of a vintage Ebel Voyager, which has a worldtime and a quickset date feature, to my collection. I remain unsure wether it's powered by any of the three 2893 variants.Almost every brand that has a GMT uses it. The best example for
tuneing is in the Ebel Sportwave GMT.
G
Which brand does not ? Glycine does, Kiber does, Fortis does, Limes does, Tutima does, Zeno does, Martin Braun does, Mühle does, Auguste Reymond does, Omega does, Marcello C does, Meistersinger does, Temption does, Panerai does, Alain Silberstein does.......BTW: Searching google for ETA 2893 will lead to 157.000 results. Must be used by most of the brands on our little world.picard said:
As for accuracy and reliability, it depends on what you pay for the watch - since this to a great extent determines the grade of the movement! ETA make their movement in various grades, ranging from relatively standard to chronometer grade. To look at, they are identical but the materials used and the tolerance limits on parts gets better as the grade gets better. Hence, your cheaper brands with ETA 2893 will have deviations around the mean daily rate of well in excess of 10 seconds, too much for the chronometer norm, whereas the top grade gets down to about 5 seconds and I have seen the odd movement get down to 2-3, about on a par what manufacturers like Jaeger LeCoultre, Zenith and Rolex achieve.
Hartmut Richter
Hartmut Richter
It is just the GMT version of the eta 2892-a2 a good movement but nothing excellent. Go for a seamaster gmt coaxial (cal 2628) or an IWC spitfire UTC (cal 30710)who are the best modified eta gmt based movements. Personally would I be you I would rather by a GMT Master 2 wit hthe best GMT movement ever built the rolex 3185.
How does the word reliable mean in automatic swiss watch?
Does it mean the watch doens't run too fast or too slow?
Does it mean the components don't break apart within 2-3 yrs?
Does it mean the watch doens't run too fast or too slow?
Does it mean the components don't break apart within 2-3 yrs?
G
Does your question imply that there is a difference of the meaning "reliable" regarding swiss and german, swiss and japanese, swiss and chinese, swiss and russian watches or does reliable just means reliable :think:picard said:
Doesn´t "accuracy" is considered to be the right term for gain or/and loss of a movement ?:think:
What about using the forum search ? Type "accuracy" and you´ll have 20 pages full of information.
An Eta 2824 can be very accurate. It all has to do with how it is adjusted and regulated. A high end movement can be inaccurate because it may not be regulate properly.
As far as reliable, ETA movements are workhorses. The 2824 is a very reliable workhorse. The ETA/Valjoux 7750 is also a reliable workhorse.
Seiko movements are also reliable and can be very accurate.
There are movements that are cheap and not very accurate, but with the proper regulation and adjustments and proper care they can me made into good movements.
As far as reliable, ETA movements are workhorses. The 2824 is a very reliable workhorse. The ETA/Valjoux 7750 is also a reliable workhorse.
Seiko movements are also reliable and can be very accurate.
There are movements that are cheap and not very accurate, but with the proper regulation and adjustments and proper care they can me made into good movements.
Yes but the quality of an eta can't really be compared to the quality of a rolex 3135 or an IWC 80110 or let's say vintage Omega, Rolex and IWC calibres. Even in the past Eta wasn't qualitatively as good as the movements from those brands. The 7750 is reliable yes but it needs service every 5 years, it wobbles and it isn't really a high grade chronograph cam operated movement.
Ah, Mr. Zaslavsky, the walking Rolex billboard, is at it again, I see.georges zaslavsky said:
I thought we had been through all this recenty (Posts in Public Forum under "Why are Rolex more expensive than other Swiss brands?") and come to the conclusion that there is no objective, conclusive evidence that Rolex movements are more "durable" than those of other makers.
I fully concede that Rolex make movements to the highest possible standard that any Swiss or other watchmaker could produce. That doesn't prevent other watchmakers from making movements to an equally high standard. The performance of makers' movements like Zenith or LeCoultre in particular, published in German watch magazines, is well on a par with that of Rolex movements. As for ETA, there are greater similarities between Rolex and ETA than people like the George Zaslavskys seem to be prepared to admit: both are mass producers. At quite a few tens of thousands of movements for several of their calibre types, I would certainly call Rolex a mass producer (total production well in excess of half a million watches per year). So, both are faced with the problem of quality control at high production levels. Just because Rolex sell watches to the end consumer whereas ETA sell watch movements to watchmakers, it doesn't exempt ETA from producing high-quality movements. If they didn't, the makers would have gone elsewhere with their custom long ago.....
Hartmut Richter
Dear Mr Richter, perhaps are you advocating that Eta is something prestigious? Rolex movements are used only by Rolex as compared to Eta who are used by almost everyone (from low range to very top of the range) and that not all firm modifies their Etas besides Omega and IWC to something comparable to a Rolex or Piguet or a Lemania movement.
If we look at how much costs Eta movements http://www.ofrei.com/page_183.html the eta 2824 is a $69 movement and the eta 2892-a2 $254,these price show that these movements are very affordable and their finish is nothing special. The 2892 appeared in the mid 70's but it was never on par with the vintage zenith cal 25xx, rolex 3035, omega 1010-1012 or iwc 8541 even at that time. You can ask any watchmaker about the eta 2892-a2, he will never tell you that is a that great movement, just a good movement with good reliability but nothing excellent.
There are very few firms who knows how to modify eta movements to make of them something very good.
Did you have ever heard of the robustness and extreme reliability of the rolex cal 15xx, rolex cal 303x and rolex 313x? I am sure that yes but if not to think that Rolex is not more durable than Eta is wrong from your side. Many watchmakers and people prefer rolex because they know that Rolex means durability over the very long run. German magazines can tell you good things about the sinns but I have seen more sinn watches going to repair than rolex in France.
Not all the brands as I said before know how to modify the eta movements except IWC and Omega who propose the best Eta based watches on the market with innovations and cosc timekeeping accuracy.
Eta is not targeting the same customers as compared to Lemania and Piguet when it comes to selling movements and it is generally known that when it comes to movement quality Lemania and Piguet are way better than Eta.
respectfully to you Mr Richter
georges zaslavsky
If we look at how much costs Eta movements http://www.ofrei.com/page_183.html the eta 2824 is a $69 movement and the eta 2892-a2 $254,these price show that these movements are very affordable and their finish is nothing special. The 2892 appeared in the mid 70's but it was never on par with the vintage zenith cal 25xx, rolex 3035, omega 1010-1012 or iwc 8541 even at that time. You can ask any watchmaker about the eta 2892-a2, he will never tell you that is a that great movement, just a good movement with good reliability but nothing excellent.
There are very few firms who knows how to modify eta movements to make of them something very good.
Did you have ever heard of the robustness and extreme reliability of the rolex cal 15xx, rolex cal 303x and rolex 313x? I am sure that yes but if not to think that Rolex is not more durable than Eta is wrong from your side. Many watchmakers and people prefer rolex because they know that Rolex means durability over the very long run. German magazines can tell you good things about the sinns but I have seen more sinn watches going to repair than rolex in France.
Not all the brands as I said before know how to modify the eta movements except IWC and Omega who propose the best Eta based watches on the market with innovations and cosc timekeeping accuracy.
Eta is not targeting the same customers as compared to Lemania and Piguet when it comes to selling movements and it is generally known that when it comes to movement quality Lemania and Piguet are way better than Eta.
respectfully to you Mr Richter
georges zaslavsky
I will only say that the most accurate watches I've owned have been Rolex with 3135 and 3130, IWC Flieger chrono with Valjoux 7750 at the highest grade and modified by IWC, and once properly repaired and regulated, an Omega Seamaster GMT with whatever ETA it contains. The Rollies, the IWC, and the Omega ran nearly spot on for weeks on end. I've never had another watch...all others some ETA derivative, run like that.
What that tells me is that an ETA/Valjoux can be made to be every bit as accurate as a Rolex movement. I won't discuss robustness because I can only speak from my own experience, which may be vastly different than others.
The Breguet Transatlantique I owned was also pretty accurate, but you would expect that from Breguet, although the watch is at the bottom of the Breguet line. I guess the movement was Lemania...can't remember.
You get what you pay for....usually
Cheers,
Bruce
What that tells me is that an ETA/Valjoux can be made to be every bit as accurate as a Rolex movement. I won't discuss robustness because I can only speak from my own experience, which may be vastly different than others.
The Breguet Transatlantique I owned was also pretty accurate, but you would expect that from Breguet, although the watch is at the bottom of the Breguet line. I guess the movement was Lemania...can't remember.
You get what you pay for....usually
Cheers,
Bruce
How would you compare say the Grand Seiko movement to the Swiss made movements?
I may not know a lot about all the different movements, but I am learning. All I was saying in the above post was that an Eta movement can be reliable and accurate if regulated properly. I agree that there are movements out there that are of higher quality, but I don't think that takes anything away from Eta and what it has done to bring the masses automatic movements at good prices. Right now it isn't in the budget to have a Rolex or IWC..lol.
2 years ago my first automatic was an Oris and I wouldn't change my selection because it was affordable and sparked my interest in mechanical watches.
I may not know a lot about all the different movements, but I am learning. All I was saying in the above post was that an Eta movement can be reliable and accurate if regulated properly. I agree that there are movements out there that are of higher quality, but I don't think that takes anything away from Eta and what it has done to bring the masses automatic movements at good prices. Right now it isn't in the budget to have a Rolex or IWC..lol.
2 years ago my first automatic was an Oris and I wouldn't change my selection because it was affordable and sparked my interest in mechanical watches.
Re: How would you compare say the Grand Seiko movement to the Swiss made movements?
Thodgins, you can buy a vintage watch with a full in house movement way better than an eta. Vintage watches offer you many more interesting alternatives than modern watches.
Thodgins, you can buy a vintage watch with a full in house movement way better than an eta. Vintage watches offer you many more interesting alternatives than modern watches.
Dear Mr. Zaslavsky,georges zaslavsky said:
Prestigious? When did I ever claim that ETA was prestigious?! No, I am certainly not claiming that - what I am claiming is that, at in excess of half a million watches produced every year, Rolex are not all that prestigious either!
I believe that this forum and others like it are not the place for brash marketing and advertising but serve to enable knowledgeable watch freaks to exchange their experiences and opinions as well as newbies to learn a little more about watches and the facts in the watch world. As such, I am perfectly willing to accept others saying things like "Rolex is my favourite brand" or "Rolex make very good watches". I find statements like "Rolex make the best watches in the world" without a preceding, down-toning "I think that..." more problematic, especially if not backed up by much in the way of hard facts from the ones who make them.
When I then look at a) what experience I have gained, b) what experience others have gained and write about in posts on this forum (classic case in question is the directly associated post by BruceS above) and c) the experience and opinion of authors in the watch literature, e.g. German watch magazines who do, after all, also employ professional watchmakers to back up what the authors write, I see the validity of statements like "Rolex make the best watches in the world" (or words to that effect) melt away like snow in the spring sun! Even the superiority of Rolex over ETA movements needs to be qualified. ETA make their movements in five grades, ranging from standard to good, Rolex make theirs in only one grade (good). So, we are in danger of making a classic apples-and-oranges comparison here. If we only look at the top grade ETA movements, I certainly do see a good degree of comparability. For example, Breitling use only ETA movements, they don't make any of their own. A few years ago, they made a decision to have all their watch movements COSC tested, just like Rolex do. As such, their quality control is phenomenal - up to 1000 steps in producing a movement from the parts received, even if it is unmodified. The result is worthy of respect too: the accuracy (daily rate and deviations around it) of Breitling ETA movements is on a par to that of Rolex movements. I know that an ETA 2824 can be had for 69$ - but with the amount of work Breitling put into their movements, they certainly can't afford to let them go for a few hundred bucks any more!! And for more on the subject of "improved" ETA movements, read BruceS's post above.
One can certainly argue that a Breitling with an ETA movement may be just as accurate and durable as a Rolex but not nearly as prestigious. I would agree - but if I want prestige, I would go for a Patek Philippe anyway. They have made only about 600000 watches in their entire history, fewer than Rolex make every year. And some of the more modern, small makers clock up even fewer than that (Roger Dubuis, Dornblüth & Son, etc.) so they should be even more prestigious. If you want the prestige of a larger in-house maker working to a very high standard, more comparable to Rolex, look at Jaeger LeCoultre. They have recently acquired two machines, at around 400000 Swiss Francs each, just to give a more even profile to the teeth on the wheels in the geartrain. Would they do it if their R&D hadn't shown that it makes the watches more accurate? Very unlikely! And their R&D is right - the accuracy of JLC watches is on a par with those of Rolex (compare, for example, the results of tests in "Chronos").
Yet you, Mr. Zaslavsky, permanently talk as if companies like Jaeger LeCoultre, like Patek Philippe, like Dornblüth & Roger Dubuis end, yes, even like Breitling didn't exist - as if the watch world was restricted to Rolex on the one hand and the Tissots, Orises and Citizens among the watch companies on the other. Now, any newbie stumbling into this forum must get the impression that Rolex really is better than anything else which the watch world has to offer. And so, the marketing hype is perpetuated, even in a forum such as this one which I feel should be somewhat more objective than the outside world. THAT is basically why I feel compelled to write posts such as this one and others in this thread.
Of course, that is only MY opinion - which doesn't count! But nor does yours really, or any other individual's. What counts is the opinion of the democratic majority among forum members. As such, I would welcome any input on this subject from the others. If I am seen by the majority to be Rolex-bashing or even Georges-Zaslavsky-bashing, I am perfectly willing to retract my statements. Until then, I am afraid that I will have to let them stand.
Respectfully yours,
Hartmut Richter
Re: How would you compare say the Grand Seiko movement to the Swiss made movements?
![Image]()
Omega and Rolex forever? I know little about watches compared to our two main protagonists in this discussion, but I've lived long enough to know a single-issue-fanatic when I see one!
I have a gold Rolex Oyster Perpetual Datejust on a President bracelet. It was my first expensive watch when I started to make a decent living. In my ignorance I knew nothing of PP, JLC, A. L & Sohne etc. etc.
It is now for sale as I cannot bring myself to wear it. I now realise that it's slightly common and vulgar, just another one of Rolex's 700,000 output every single year.
Omega and Rolex for evergeorges zaslavsky said:
Omega and Rolex forever? I know little about watches compared to our two main protagonists in this discussion, but I've lived long enough to know a single-issue-fanatic when I see one!
I have a gold Rolex Oyster Perpetual Datejust on a President bracelet. It was my first expensive watch when I started to make a decent living. In my ignorance I knew nothing of PP, JLC, A. L & Sohne etc. etc.
It is now for sale as I cannot bring myself to wear it. I now realise that it's slightly common and vulgar, just another one of Rolex's 700,000 output every single year.
Re: How would you compare say the Grand Seiko movement to the Swiss made movements?
They are not my cup of tea, but I can appreciate them for their quality of materials and elegance through strength.
Lets hope no potential buyer sees your post:-D
Regards
Hello Frank, personally, I wouldn't call a solid gold datejust on president bracelet "common and vulgar..."Frank Wilkinson said:Omega and Rolex for ever
![Image]()
Omega and Rolex forever? I know little about watches compared to our two main protagonists in this discussion, but I've lived long enough to know a single-issue-fanatic when I see one!
I have a gold Rolex Oyster Perpetual Datejust on a President bracelet. It was my first expensive watch when I started to make a decent living. In my ignorance I knew nothing of PP, JLC, A. L & Sohne etc. etc.
It is now for sale as I cannot bring myself to wear it. I now realise that it's slightly common and vulgar, just another one of Rolex's 700,000 output every single year.
They are not my cup of tea, but I can appreciate them for their quality of materials and elegance through strength.Lets hope no potential buyer sees your post:-D
Regards
Re: How would you compare say the Grand Seiko movement to the Swiss made movements?
and how are you any better?
going from your post, you no longer wish to wear your rolex not because it isn't keeping good time, but because you realize that it isn't as exclusive as you thought it would be? :roll:
as for the topic in question. the eta movements are reliable and affordable. out of the factory, no one is going to lump them in the same class as the rolex or other in-house movements...which is fine for me. buy what you like and can afford.
and how are you any better?
going from your post, you no longer wish to wear your rolex not because it isn't keeping good time, but because you realize that it isn't as exclusive as you thought it would be? :roll:
as for the topic in question. the eta movements are reliable and affordable. out of the factory, no one is going to lump them in the same class as the rolex or other in-house movements...which is fine for me. buy what you like and can afford.
Frank Wilkinson said:Omega and Rolex for ever
![Image]()
Omega and Rolex forever? I know little about watches compared to our two main protagonists in this discussion, but I've lived long enough to know a single-issue-fanatic when I see one!
I have a gold Rolex Oyster Perpetual Datejust on a President bracelet. It was my first expensive watch when I started to make a decent living. In my ignorance I knew nothing of PP, JLC, A. L & Sohne etc. etc.
It is now for sale as I cannot bring myself to wear it. I now realise that it's slightly common and vulgar, just another one of Rolex's 700,000 output every single year.
Re: How would you compare say the Grand Seiko movement to the Swiss made movements?
When I wear my PP Calatrava or my JLC Reverso for instance it gives me pleasure because I know that it's a fine instrument without shouting "Look at me, I'm richer than you".
As I said earlier, fifteen years ago I bought it because I didn't know that the others existed, which is a tribute to Rolex's advertising skills I suppose.
I don't like wearing it because, in my opinion, it's slightly vulgar. It's a bit like a man wearing a huge gold bracelet or a flashy medallion dangling around his neck.Denizen said:
When I wear my PP Calatrava or my JLC Reverso for instance it gives me pleasure because I know that it's a fine instrument without shouting "Look at me, I'm richer than you".
As I said earlier, fifteen years ago I bought it because I didn't know that the others existed, which is a tribute to Rolex's advertising skills I suppose.
Dear Mr Richter
It is not because I haven't talked about Jaeger Le Coultre or Patek or Parmigiani Fleurier or Daniel Roth or Union Glasshütte that I don't consider them as something not prestigious, this is false and you know it.
I was talking about the high luxury brand segment and movements who are mass produced and recognized as outstanding.
While we are talking about Rolex let's talk about the 4130 their latest chrono movement. It is considered by many as the reference in terms of chronograph movements http://www.mkmotorsport.com/Rolex%20Daytona%20Zenith_vs_in-house%20movement.pdf and http://bjsonline.com/watches/articles/0014.shtml. Who on the market propose a chronograph movements with a 72 hour power reserve? Besides Rolex none.
Now some links about the rolex 3135 http://nawcc-ihc-mb.infopop.cc/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/9886009961/m/8551039691/r/7891069691
http://people.timezone.com/mdisher/andrewb/3135/3135_1.htm.
I know that the eta 2892-a2 is available in five grades but there are few firms who know how to modify this movement. I never said that I disagreed with Bruce S who confirmed what I said in my previous post about ETA movements modified by Omega and IWC. The Omega cal 1120 and the IWC 30110 are the best modified eta 2892-a2 found on the market. The Rolex 3135 is still the benchmark to which are compared other selfwinding chronometer movements.
Now let's talk about Breitling that you took as example. Besides engraving a rotor with the name Breitling as well as changing the balance to the highest quality one, not much improvements are made on breitling calibres. Ok all Breitlings calibres are cosc certified, but their capacity of keeping an outstanding accuracy over the long run is not really comparable to Rolex movements. I can't compare a calibre breitling 17 to a 3135. I can compare a zenith elite calibre 6 or a jaeger le coultre cal 889-2 to a 3135. You can have a cosc certified chronometer but if your watch isn't able to keep accurate time over the very long run then the movement is far to be of the highest quality.
To be honest with you Mr Richter I am not a fan of Tissot offerings, but I have respect for small firms like Frederic Constant, Fortis, Union, Sinn, Nomos or Ventura who propose very interesting products at a very studied price.
So as you can see Mr Richter, I am not only focused on Omega and Rolex and none forces you to follow my opinion or agree with me.
Have a nice day
respectfully and best regards
georges zaslavsky
It is not because I haven't talked about Jaeger Le Coultre or Patek or Parmigiani Fleurier or Daniel Roth or Union Glasshütte that I don't consider them as something not prestigious, this is false and you know it.
I was talking about the high luxury brand segment and movements who are mass produced and recognized as outstanding.
While we are talking about Rolex let's talk about the 4130 their latest chrono movement. It is considered by many as the reference in terms of chronograph movements http://www.mkmotorsport.com/Rolex%20Daytona%20Zenith_vs_in-house%20movement.pdf and http://bjsonline.com/watches/articles/0014.shtml. Who on the market propose a chronograph movements with a 72 hour power reserve? Besides Rolex none.
Now some links about the rolex 3135 http://nawcc-ihc-mb.infopop.cc/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/9886009961/m/8551039691/r/7891069691
http://people.timezone.com/mdisher/andrewb/3135/3135_1.htm.
I know that the eta 2892-a2 is available in five grades but there are few firms who know how to modify this movement. I never said that I disagreed with Bruce S who confirmed what I said in my previous post about ETA movements modified by Omega and IWC. The Omega cal 1120 and the IWC 30110 are the best modified eta 2892-a2 found on the market. The Rolex 3135 is still the benchmark to which are compared other selfwinding chronometer movements.
Now let's talk about Breitling that you took as example. Besides engraving a rotor with the name Breitling as well as changing the balance to the highest quality one, not much improvements are made on breitling calibres. Ok all Breitlings calibres are cosc certified, but their capacity of keeping an outstanding accuracy over the long run is not really comparable to Rolex movements. I can't compare a calibre breitling 17 to a 3135. I can compare a zenith elite calibre 6 or a jaeger le coultre cal 889-2 to a 3135. You can have a cosc certified chronometer but if your watch isn't able to keep accurate time over the very long run then the movement is far to be of the highest quality.
To be honest with you Mr Richter I am not a fan of Tissot offerings, but I have respect for small firms like Frederic Constant, Fortis, Union, Sinn, Nomos or Ventura who propose very interesting products at a very studied price.
So as you can see Mr Richter, I am not only focused on Omega and Rolex and none forces you to follow my opinion or agree with me.
Have a nice day
respectfully and best regards
georges zaslavsky
Re: How would you compare say the Grand Seiko movement to the Swiss made movements?
Perhaps you should have asked if I had /have other brands that I consider besides Rolex and Omega. Rolex and Omega have a significant importance for me because they played and play a very important in the horological word due to the quality of their movements. I do like other brands like Zenith, IWC, Fortis, Union Glasshütte, Ventura, Sinn, Speake Marin, Philippe Dufour, Blancpain, Dornblueth, GO, Tutima, Golay Spierer, Daniel Roth, De Bethune and other brands. Please don't say that I am a single issue fanatic when it is not the case.
regards
georges
Hi FrankFrank Wilkinson said:
Perhaps you should have asked if I had /have other brands that I consider besides Rolex and Omega. Rolex and Omega have a significant importance for me because they played and play a very important in the horological word due to the quality of their movements. I do like other brands like Zenith, IWC, Fortis, Union Glasshütte, Ventura, Sinn, Speake Marin, Philippe Dufour, Blancpain, Dornblueth, GO, Tutima, Golay Spierer, Daniel Roth, De Bethune and other brands. Please don't say that I am a single issue fanatic when it is not the case.
regards
georges
Re: How would you compare say the Grand Seiko movement to the Swiss made movements?
"as for the topic in question. the eta movements are reliable and affordable. out of the factory, no one is going to lump them in the same class as the rolex or other in-house movements...which is fine for me. buy what you like and can afford." :-!Denizen said:
I have just bought a Hamilton Jazzmaster Traveler GMT2 with the ETA 2893-2 movement and I'm really impressed. I put it on time with "time.is" website and 5 days later the watch has only 3 seconds of delay. That's much better than my Rolex Datejust and my Breguet Aeronavale Type XX. ETA 2893-2 seems to be a really great and accurate movement.
-
?
-
?
-
?
-
?
-
?
-
?
-
?
-
?
-
?
-
?
-
?
-
?
-
?
-
?
-
?
-
?
-
?
-
?
-
?
-
?
