Probably it makes no difference, but I usually obscure serials for few dumb reasons:
- reduce chance that a fake maker copies design w my serial #
- reduce chance of scammer using my pics to sell a watch
- reduce chance of scammer reporting my watch as stolen, and then having trouble getting it serviced

I suspect chances of these are infinitesimal, but it only takes 5 seconds to blank out SN on a photo.

 

Exactly. Better safe than sorry.

 

A recurring issue since WUS was founded

Why Hide Serial Numbers in Pics?

https://www.watchuseek.com/f2/why-serial-numbers-erased-sale-ads-709274.html

https://www.watchuseek.com/f75/why-hide-serial-when-selling-811256.html

https://www.watchuseek.com/f17/why-do-some-sellers-hide-serial-numbers-auctions-21299.html

And there 's much more to be found with a forum search.

 

I leave them on show. That way if a scammer buys your watch, claims it doesn't work, but sends you a defective watch (same make and model) in return, you can prove to PayPal/ebay/judge/god that he sent a different watch back.

Maybe I'm paranoid.

 

Who's to say that you didn't make the switch yourself? Unless you took video as you packed it, AND in some manner sealed it. Or had an independent witness when you packed it.

Now, if you have an extensive history of honorable dealings, this he said/she said would seem likely to go your way; how many scam buyers have a good record? (They certainly may have a long transaction history, of nickel and dime stuff. I've seen that with sellers from time to time.) I'd also suspect you'd have much better luck in a court of law...but the cost of doing so, even if you could bring the buyer to trial, would be obscene. Even if you could do it in a small claims court; I know I'd want legal advice in advance, even if no lawyers were present at the hearing.

Still, what you're doing seems in no way to be an unbreakable protection.

 

I like the idea. Is better maintain the serial number in private comunication between seller and buyer if is required.

 

I'll say the same thing I've always said in each of the threads about this;

A fake maker has absolutely nothing to gain from copying your serial number. They make a ton of watches, they're just stamping random numbers.

By not showing the serial numbers, you are actually increasing the chances that a scammer will use your photos. Without the original photos, with serial numbers, you have no way of proving it's the same watch.

The only real real reason to hide the serial numbers is to protect the AD that the grey dealer bought the watch from.

Mark

 

I'll say the same thing I've always said in each of the threads about this;

A fake maker has absolutely nothing to gain from copying your serial number. They make a ton of watches, they're just stamping random numbers.

By not showing the serial numbers, you are actually increasing the chances that a scammer will use your photos. Without the original photos, with serial numbers, you have no way of proving it's the same watch.

The only real real reason to hide the serial numbers is to protect the AD that the grey dealer bought the watch from.

Mark

False, IMO.

Probably true for 98% of watches made...but not for the 2% or less of seriously valuable pieces...those where a counterfeiter will take the time and trouble to make a *good* fake. One recommended check is to ask the manufacturer if the serial number is correct.

 

Yup, I blacked (actually whiteout in the pic below) them out too for all of the security reasons mentioned above.

 

I never realized it was an issue. Good to know in the future.

 

I do not think its a big deal.

 

A dealer of higher end watches who I know told me to always obscure the serial numbers. He's been in the business a long time and had much to say about it. He said replica makers are constantly searching the internet to find pictures with serial numbers to put on their watches. Companies like AP have data bases of serial numbers that have appeared on replicas. You can call AP with a serial number and they can tell you if that number has been replicated. He also said, and this is getting off track, that there are very high end machining companies, notably in Italy, that are making very accurate copies. He talked to AP who had received one of these ROOs for inspection. They could not tell from the outside. When they opened the watch, they were stunned that they could not tell by looking at the movement until they did a partial disassembly.

 

Thanks for the great info.

 

It takes the AP service watchmaker a "partial disassembly" to identify their movement? I don't believe it, if that person knows his or her trade it should not take more than a close look to the caliber.

Don't have proof that the guy that said this to Gary123 was replicating an urban legend, slightly exaggerating or blatantly misrepresenting the facts, but think it is plainly not possible. No article or scientific publication to back up my position, but would love to have the feedback form an AP service watchmaker to clarify. Hope this is enough elaboration?

 

You have no idea. I spoke with him for a while about this. The plates and screws and much of what's visible is not difficult to replicate, depending on the movement, and if you have the right equipment. It is having the right equipment and the right people to do the fabrication. You may be right, perhaps if the AP tech took a lot time and carefully studied the movement under magnification he could have made a determination without disassembly. Maybe it was just quicker to remove a plate - I didn't get into these details with him. But I got the point: High end machining companies have now gotten into the business of making high quality fakes.

 

I make a copy of the photo with the serial, black it out, and have a backup. I've thankfully never had an issue, but why risk putting your serial number out there if you don't need to?

 

Half a year ago there was an extensive discussion on the quality of counterfeits on The Rolex Forum. Counterfeits have become so sophisticated that nowadays only by disassembly are they able to distingush genuine from fake.

I never have, and never will buy Rolex unless it's from an AD.

On a different note, it does make one ponder the ratio of cost of production to profit margins of said popular luxury brands if counterfeiters are able to basically clone and sell an almost indistinguishable piece at a fraction of the original price.

 

Half a year ago there was an extensive discussion on the quality of counterfeits on The Rolex Forum. counterfeits have become so sophisticated that nowadays only by disassembly are they able to distingush genuine from fake.

I never have, and never will buy Rolex unless it's from an AD.
...

Agree. Same for many popular AP and other watches, especially with solid casebacks, or modified ETA movements

...
On a different note, it does make one ponder the ratio of cost of production to profit margins of said popular luxury brands if counterfeiters are able to basically clone and sell an almost indistinguishable piece at a fraction of the original price.

Marginal unit production costs may be small. But true cost of production has to include, R&D investment, marketing spend, distribution channel costs, QC and warranty costs, ongoing customer service, inhouse machinery, metallurgy, and many many other costs that go into final price of finished product from an established brand.
Also, what you pay retail is not same as wholesale price. ADs margin is about half of your final cost.

 

I would suspect that "high end machining companies" should have better and more legal uses for their time and skills, but then I am prone to think for myself instead of simply accepting what the grey market guru told you, so we will agree to disagree on this.

 

Why do people hide serial numbers?

Just wondering why people are sometimes reluctant to show or reveal their watch serial numbers online? What is the concern? How big of a risk is it? I imagine it is more of an issue for some watch brands/types than others? Thanks.

Sent from my SM-G965F using Tapatalk

 

Re: Why do people hide serial numbers?

Just wondering why people are sometimes reluctant to show or reveal their watch serial numbers online? What is the concern? How big of a risk is it? I imagine it is more of an issue for some watch brands/types than others? Thanks.

There is a record of ownership attached to that number...and it's nobody else's business. If some chose to share it so be it. If others scrub it so be it.

 

Re: Why do people hide serial numbers?

This has been discussed many times before--serial numbers in the hands of people who don't actually own the watch can be used in many different ways. For example someone can claim that their watch was stolen, cite the number to their insurance company, and get a payment on it--even though it was not actually their watch--and, it has now been registered as stolen. Some companies do not require or even check if in fact that serial number was your own--they sometimes do not require the actual documentation to back up the claim--depends on how expensive it is--others have actually used the photos from the posting, with the serial number as evidence that it was their property, and either listed it themselves to try to sell to someone else (take the money and run), or for another take on the insurance scam--for those reasons, among many others, some folks don't like to show the numbers.

 

Re: Why do people hide serial numbers?

This has been discussed many times before--serial numbers in the hands of people who don't actually own the watch can be used in many different ways. For example someone can claim that their watch was stolen, cite the number to their insurance company, and get a payment on it--even though it was not actually their watch--and, it has now been registered as stolen. Some companies do not require or even check if in fact that serial number was your own--they sometimes do not require the actual documentation to back up the claim--depends on how expensive it is--others have actually used the photos from the posting, with the serial number as evidence that it was their property, and either listed it themselves to try to sell to someone else (take the money and run), or for another take on the insurance scam--for those reasons, among many others, some folks don't like to show the numbers.

Makes sense, thanks for shedding light on this issue everyone.

Sent from my SM-G965F using Tapatalk

 

Re: Why do people hide serial numbers?

On higher end watches I don't disclose serial numbers because replica makers look for those to use on their fake watches.

 

Re: Why do people hide serial numbers?

paranoia runs deep

 

Re: Why do people hide serial numbers?

paranoia runs deep

You have to think like a crook, not an honest man, to know what can happen.

 

Re: Why do people hide serial numbers?

Afraid of fake watch use the serial number

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

Because they're naive and actually believe a replica manufacturer will use their serial number on a fake watch and that it will somehow affect them.

 

Re: Why do people hide serial numbers?

Can somebody please explain how a fake watch having the same serial number as a real one could matter in the slightest? Maybe I'm being a bit slow here but I don't see how it would.

 

Can somebody please explain how a fake watch having the same serial number as a real one could matter in the slightest? Maybe I'm being a bit slow here but I don't see how it would.

You didn't read the thread, did you?

[edit]
Okay, Barney-style:

You're a crook who has a fake watch.

You see a serial number of a real version of the watch online.

You stamp it into your fake.

You put the watch up for sale, citing the serial number, showing photographic "proof" and inviting buyers to check its provenance for themselves.

Potential buyers look up the serial number and see that it's legit, then one of them buys the watch.

*Profit* for you. The buyer now owns a fake.

Win, right?

SCENARIO #2:

You see some pics of a nice watch online, and they have the serial number.

You copy the photos to your own computer (or phone, or whatever).

You go to the cops, tell them that you were robbed, and here's the photos of "your" watch. They fill out a report and register the watch as stolen.

You take the report to your insurance company and file a claim. Hopefully, they'll give you a check for fair market value for "your" stolen watch.

Win!

 

Re: Why do people hide serial numbers?

Merged with a randomly chosen thread.

 

I did read the thread.

Re: Scenario 1 - I don't see how that affects the person with the real watch.

Re: Scenario 2 - Still really failing to see how this is going to affect the person that actually owns the real watch. As long as you have proof of purchase you have nothing to worry about. Even the story given as an example in this thread about the guys and the "stolen" camera serial numbers resulted in the perpetrators being charged.

 

I did read the thread.

Re: Scenario 1 - I don't see how that affects the person with the real watch.

Re: Scenario 2 - Still really failing to see how this is going to affect the person that actually owns the real watch. As long as you have proof of purchase you have nothing to worry about. Even the story given as an example in this thread about the guys and the "stolen" camera serial numbers resulted in the perpetrators being charged.

So fraud doesn't matter if nobody notices?

You're displaying a real lack of personal integrity. I wouldn't buy cat litter from you.

 

Hiding Watch Numbers

Just curious, we see a watch one of 300 for example. Why do they hide that info, usually found on the back?

 

Re: Hiding Watch Numbers

Just curious, we see a watch one of 300 for example. Why do they hide that info, usually found on the back?

Because people have reported them as stolen erroneously in the past since the serial number is simple and provided a clear image anyone could claim the watch was theirs and bog down the seller or buyer for years.

Always register your watch with the manufacturer of possible and with your insurance company.

 

Re: Hiding Watch Numbers

Also, when selling hide a couple numbers/letters so no scammer can file a police report amd say of this is my stolen watch. Sad but required.

 

Re: Hiding Watch Numbers

if you got the bill, i dont see a problem there

 

Re: Hiding Watch Numbers

if you got the bill, i dont see a problem there

The problem is though you may be able to prove it's yours, you're still locked up proving it then you have to wait for eBay or PayPal or even WUS to reinstate you. It's a hassle and it's easier not to deal with it.

 

Hiding Serial Number when Selling?

I heard somewhere that the serial number when selling a watch should be hidden/block out in the pictures. Is this a good idea? If so, why?

 

Re: Hiding Serial Number when Selling?

I heard somewhere that the serial number when selling a watch should be hidden/block out in the pictures. Is this a good idea? If so, why?

I think it's stupid. I see the same mindset in vehicle images, the license plate will be blacked out. If I'm selling something I have nothing to hide.