I've been wondering this same thing since the Willard came out in 2020. I own a Turtle myself (SRP 779), but not a Willard (yet -- I eventually will). This topic/question was addressed in multiple YouTube videos I watched as well as in some Watchuseek threads. From everything I gathered, yes, there is a noticeable difference in the finishings between the Turtle and Willard; basically, from what I heard and read, the Willard just feels like a more premium watch. But again, I don't own one and have never handled one.

All that said, many reviews online question whether the Willard is worth the $1,300 retail price; many people believe it is not. The Turtle, on the other hand... I can't recall any reasonable watch person saying it's not a good value at sub-$400 (grey market price).

In my opinion, you can't go wrong with a Turtle. Such a great watch, and such a reasonable price. I think if you're looking for the look and feel of a classic Seiko cushion case diver, you're going to get it just the same with the Turtle as with a Willard. You'll just be giving up some nicer finishings, including sapphire. However, from what I've read, it doesn't seem like the 6R movement in the Willard is much of an upgrade over the 4R in the Turtle. I have two 4R Seikos and they've both been great from an accuracy standpoint.

The only reason I plan to get a Willard is because I like both the Turtle and Willard enough to want to have one of each (and possibly more than one Turtle at some point -- maybe a King Turtle), and because I can afford both. If I still had the limited budget I had when I was a bit younger, I would be perfectly fine sticking with the Turtle.

Not sure if this response helps, since I've never seen a Willard in the metal. But I'd say your recent Turtle purchase is a wise one. I've been wearing my Turtle pretty daily since summer of 2020.

 

Higher level calibre, sapphire, greater hype.

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Higher level calibre, sapphire, greater hype.

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How does the Willard compare with your BB58 in terms pf quality, feel, "coolness", overall impressions? I find myself comparing the Willard to Tudor models like Black Bay and Pelagos. I realize there's a substantial price difference between the Willard and those Tudors (at least a $2500 difference).

 

It’s definitely a step above the turtle in terms of finishing, bezel action, dial, materials, comfort etc. The movement power reserve is also very impressive. In terms of “value” I will say the turtle is a superior watch. If I HAD to value the standard Willard monetarily I’d say somewhere around $6-800. But value is arbitrary and different for each person.

 

Thats about where I am too, if it was like 750 I would have bought it I'm pretty sure.

Theres a lot of features on the Willard which I prefer too - the domed crystal, coin edge bezel, smaler size, applied indicies
But none of them would make the watch that much more expensive thats just personal preference. And its not like they had to spend a lot of time designing it either.
Well I guess it's a combination of the fact that its built one step better and them knowing that people dig the design what makes the price.

I plan on getting one some day too btw ^^

 

Don't forget they are two different sizes - the biggest difference for me is the 22mm lug width on the Turtle vs 20 for the Willard. The Turtle wears bigger, although, weirdly, just as well (that's the Seiko magic thing) but I just prefer the 20mm strap width.

The crystal isn't "just" a sapphire switch-out either: the Turtle's crystals are flat (often with a date magnifier) while the Willard's crystal is nicely beveled and slightly domed - I think it's a great upgrade.

Lastly (from my perspective) I've never cared for the thick lumpy bezel edges on Turtles - they're over polished and feel cheap. The Willard has a fine coin-edge that looks back to the 6105's and definitely feels more refined.

Personally, I'm not all that impressed with the 6R movements ... but there's that, too.

So, is that all worth it? For me it is.

 

I have owned two Turtles - SRP777 - and currently own an SPB185 (not a Willard but in the same tier). As mentioned, the Turtles most definitely wear large. Case and dial finishing are actually better than average given the price tier. The SPB has very impressive finishing, especially for the price. It's also got diashield, sapphire and a superior movement and bracelet. Sure, the bump up in price is significant, at roughly 3x, but I feel it's worth it. My only complaint is the clasp, which feels needlessly oversized with its cheap, tinny and largely useless diver's extension.

As a side note, I went to my AD ready to buy the Willard but was so taken by the look of the SPB185 that I changed my mind at the last minute. No regrets.

For reference, the Turtle wears larger than my Pelagos while the SPB wears smaller.

 

What about a Steeldive 1970?

 

I personally would rather have the real thing or nothing at all.
Well the real thing would be a 6105 but I also have a hard time with really vintage watches since a lot of parts on them are irreplaceble at this point which would cause me not using it the way I want to. But I also don't like things just sitting around doing nothing thats equally as bad in my opinion

So the next best thing would be a new willard in my opinion. The steeldive had a right to exist before the new willard was availible i guess but I wouldn't have wanted one at this point either.

There are reasons some things are iconic, desirable.... and you don't get this by just copying it.
Again thats just my opinion, I'm totally cool with people getting it. I get it the REAL thing isn't really availible anymore and people want to have it.

 

I personally would rather have the real thing or nothing at all.

Amen! I'm growing very tired of the normalization of design theft.

 

The points the feel cheap on the standard turtle are the mineral crystal, dial markers, bezel insert and bezel knurling. All of which are improved considerably with the new King Seiko for very little price increase. I think the King Turtle and King Samurai are about the best value in Seiko today. I've only handled a few of the 6R Willards in person and haven't been terribly impressed. The Quality doesn't seem to be much of a step up from the 4R stuff and it's annoying that the case gets in the way of the bezel winding/undwinding. Not worth the extra cost vs. a King Turtle IMO.

 

A few month ago I was shopping for a new Seiko Diver after I sold my SKX007 , the Idea was to simply get the successor which in my mind is the "new Turtle".

But I also looove the "new Willard" , obviously there is a big price difference with the Turtle at around 300-350€ and the Willard at around 1200-1350€ at least here where I live...

(I chose the SPRE93 / SRP777)

I could't really justify spennding 3 or 4 times the money, for what In my opinion were just some minor upgrades and different aesthetics.

Spec wise there isn't that much different as far as I'm concerned , sure some people like saphire better but I never had any problems with hardlex so....

Anyway Is there something I did miss? Is the willard just finished and built that much better to justify that big of a price difference or is it "just" the icon status I'd be paying for?

In My experience

From a value perspective I would put the Willard at 2X a Turtle
From a looks persepctive I would say its 3X a Turtle
From a wearbility perspective its 4X a Turtle

Price would keep me from paying more than 1k for a willard but it will stick around for a lot longer than the Turtle. I would happily buy another Turtle in the future (my 7th?) but it's once again unlikely to stick for long.

 

Just to add another wrench into your decision: King Turtle, which is same size as Turtle, with sapphire glass and ceramic bezel, for $625 msrp.

I don't have Turtle or Williard. But I have the Land Tortoise, which fits my criteria better, but maybe not for others.

Turtle:

• Pro: Case style, price/value (used), no cyclops
• Cons: 22mm lug width (I prefer 20mm), hardlex crystal, day/date

King Turtle:

• Pro: Case style, sapphire crystal, ceramic bezel, price/value (maybe)
• Cons: 22mm lug width (I prefer 20mm), day/date, fugly cyclops

Willard:

• Pro: 20mm lug width, sapphire crystal, date-only, no cyclops, 6R35 (slightly better than 4R3x)
• Cons: non-symmetric case with crown guard (I know this feature makes it the Williard, but I just cannot get over that non-symmetry), extremely poor value ($1200)

Land Tortoise:

• Pro: Turtle-style case, 20mm lug width, sapphire crystal, date-only, no cyclops, price/value ($250-$300)
• Con: size is smaller (2mm smaller than Turtle), not iso rated diver, compass bezel (can be con to some)

 

A few month ago I was shopping for a new Seiko Diver after I sold my SKX007 , the Idea was to simply get the successor which in my mind is the "new Turtle".

But I also looove the "new Willard" , obviously there is a big price difference with the Turtle at around 300-350€ and the Willard at around 1200-1350€ at least here where I live...

(I chose the SPRE93 / SRP777)

I could't really justify spennding 3 or 4 times the money, for what In my opinion were just some minor upgrades and different aesthetics.

Spec wise there isn't that much different as far as I'm concerned , sure some people like saphire better but I never had any problems with hardlex so....

Anyway Is there something I did miss? Is the willard just finished and built that much better to justify that big of a price difference or is it "just" the icon status I'd be paying for?

You didn’t miss anything in my opinion. You made a good call buying the turtle.
I wanted the Willard because of the case dimension but when I received the watch it seems the turtle hides the thick case better.

 

Well, my experience with 2 4r movements has been very positive. They were very steady performers. I eventually let both watches go because of hardlex crystals. So, I don't really see the 6r as a step up at all. I'd be quite happy at the turtle level if it came with sapphire, in fact, I'd buy a 4th gen monster right now if it came stock with sapphire. I just don't want to go through all the hassle to aftermarket it. The Willard appears to be a great watch with a so so movement. My current 6r15 is running ok after about a year, but it seems to be getting slower and slower.

 

The SLA willard, price difference makes sense. The SPB, not so much. Would go for the turtle.

 

I can't say much for the turtle and Willard but I can say that there is a slight difference between the SRPXXX (turtle, samurai, monsters etc) and SPBXXX line divers.

Main difference is the 4r and 6r difference but accuracy can vary significantly, plus you can regulate the movements if you want true accuracy. The 72 hour power reserve in the 6r is definitely better but both are 3Hz.

There is also a difference in the smoothness of the screw down crowns. The SRPXXX has that grainly feel whereas the SPBXXX I have tried and owned are a lot smoother.

The SPBXXX also has a nice diashield coated bracelet. It is quite nice these bracelets, whereas the cheap SPRXXX bracelets are terrible - get them on a comfy strap if possible.

I think the SPBXXX line is better only if you can get it for at least 30% off MSRP. At full retail price the SPBXXX line is never worth it IMHO.

 

Any suggestions on where you can score an SPB143 around 30% off? I'm seriously considering one but they're $1595 cad+12% tax locally and I'm hesitant to pay that much for one.

 

I don't know, I think it is nicer but agree with others that it should probably still be sub-$1000. You're mostly paying for the movement, crystal, dial and dia-shield and slightly the bracelet. The Willard bracelet has the newer pin and barrel style links vs the old ones of the turtle line, with the annoying tiny barrels on each end. But at $1300 retail in the US you're getting close to stuff like the HydroConquest which you might be able to get with a discount to make it even closer.

I say get the turtle, if you really want a Willard case go up to the SLA line, much, much better.

If the SLA price isn't feasible I'd recommend finding a nice condition used Willard.

(I sold the Willard, keeping the turtle and the SLA051)

 

I like them both but I think Seiko did a much better job with the dimensions of the Willard reissue.

 

Yes. Agree with this.


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The BB58 is at a different level of finishing and the movement is superior. The comparison between the Willard is not a great comparison, the 63 MAS is more of a comparison watch to the BB58.

The King Turtle would be a better comparison. Bang for Buck, I'd probably go with the King Turtle. I have the hand grenade model and it's a great beater and something nice to wear if I think something may happen to a nicer watch. I have been tempted to get the Willard a few times, just to have one.

My 63MAS, even that one not on the same level as my BB58. But, they really compliment each other as some vintage-style divers from east and west.

 

I like Seiko it’s my absolute favorite brand. I am still rocking SKX watches however because of the tool factor and the dial layout. I have tried on Samurai and new Turtle and thought they were great but just have not seen the reason to buy them over my SKX models. I have seen a fewer higher end Seiko divers at the airport shops but have not had anything jump out at me. I love the look of the SPB143 on the inter web but have not seen it in person. If I see one and it is as good as I hear I will pay the 1000usd for it. The spec wars are meaningless to me when it comes to Seiko divers. If Seiko came back out with the 6309 in its original case size with hardlex a matte dial printed lume and original style hands running a 4R36 on a cheap Z22 strap I would buy it over any 1000dollar Seiko!

 

The spec wars are meaningless to me when it comes to Seiko divers. If Seiko came back out with the 6309 in its original case size with hardlex a matte dial printed lume and original style hands running a 4R36 on a cheap Z22 strap I would buy it over any 1000dollar Seiko!

Specs are meaningless...

Followed by.... Specs? [emoji23][emoji23][emoji23]


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I can't speak to the current generation of the two, but between my 6309 Turtle and 6105 Willard, I prefer the Willard. As others have pointed out, the shorter lug width (22mm on the 6309, 19mm on the OG Willard) makes it wear smaller, and the watch is generally flatter on the wrist, at least for me.

They're both excellent watches, and I wear each of them regularly. But if I had to choose just one, it would be the Willard.

 

The Willard is clearly superior to a Turtle but 3/4 times superior? Comes back to the old favourite of “if you want the watch then you’ve got to pay the asking price”

 

Just gave my nephew my PADI Turtle which wears big. Small wrist. I arrived to the conclusion recently that 20mm is a better look. I also started to dislike the heavier weight of bracelets so the green Willard makes sense for me. When I bought it last April it was discounted at the AD before tax $872. It's been a great piece for my journey. I'll get it regulated soon just to bring it up to par. No biggie.

 

I chose the Turtle.

 

I have owned an skx007, Orange Monster, Turtle (SRP77), SBDC051, and currently, SBDC063.

The SBDC051 and SBDC063 are clearly superior to the Turtle in everyway! Better movement, saphire, diashield, ect.
I contend the SBDC051 and SBDC063 are better than the new smaller versions SBDC143 and 133 or whatever their models numbers. So I would imagine the Willard is way superior than the Turtle. Is it worth it to you? Not sure. I bought my sbdc051 and 063 used but in new condition, so heavily discounted, around the $500 mark. So if you are looking at 1000-1500, you have better quality options like Longines Hydro and Oris Divers.

 

I love Seiko, but the 6r movement is really quite mediocre and doesn't rival a Swiss workhorse. Anecdotally, many have found that 6r15/35 etc are actually less accurate than 4r calibers. For this reason I personally find it impossible to justify such high prices for the Willard, etc even if they are finished to a higher standard than the more budget friendly Seikos of old. I believe the answer for Seiko is to develop movements that sit somewhere in quality in between the existing 4r/6r and 8 series calibres - something that is a true equivalent to an ETA or Sellita. Or perhaps start using the 8 series calibres in Willards and charging a bit more - say $2000+. That way they would truly compete with Oris/Tudor etc.

 

The new willard has more hype, but I like it better. I haven't handled the new willard but if the 6r is built like the sumo's it has much more solid feel and the winding is smoother. I don't think the price gap is justified, but the willard is still relatively new. In the 500 range it is a better option. Solely on price the turtle is a much better option.

The US release ice willards are groegeous though.