Re: How ETA's Decision to Stop Supplying Movements Affects Prometheus Watch Company and Watch Indust

 

Re: How ETA's Decision to Stop Supplying Movements Affects Prometheus Watch Company and Watch Indust

It's happening. Were it my company I would have put a Soprod order in a year ago.

Regardless of objective quality comparisons, it will be a long time before Asian movements are accepted in Western markets. Swiss Made has firmly entrenched itself in the minds of the general public, including many buyers here.

 

Re: How ETA's Decision to Stop Supplying Movements Affects Prometheus Watch Company and Watch Indust

It's happening. Were it my company I would have put a Soprod order in a year ago.

Regardless of objective quality comparisons, it will be a long time before Asian movements are accepted in Western markets. Swiss Made has firmly entrenched itself in the minds of the general public, including many buyers here.

And with good reason.

 

Re: How ETA's Decision to Stop Supplying Movements Affects Prometheus Watch Company and Watch Indust

I have no issue with quality Asian movements, as long as I'm not paying ETA prices.

IME, the emotional attachment to the "Swiss" thing will be difficult to overcome, in the broader marketplace.

 

Re: How ETA's Decision to Stop Supplying Movements Affects Prometheus Watch Company and Watch Indust

IME, the emotional attachment to the "Swiss" thing will be difficult to overcome, in the broader marketplace.

I don't think it's an emotional issue but one of perceived quality and the attendant social perception that comes with it. As in, "Oh, you have a Swiss watch. That must be good." The Swiss watch industry PR machine has a very good job and Rolex's marketing hasn't hurt. How many threads come up here asking if Rolex is the best watch in the world? The informed know the answer to that. The uninformed don't. Simple.

 

Re: How ETA's Decision to Stop Supplying Movements Affects Prometheus Watch Company and Watch Indust

Well, you can tell that the folks that made this decision are operating from the point of view that a good product gave them. The problem they do not see is that when the stop providing the product to the Industry (us) in a myriad of watches produced by whomever, then they open the door for the loss of that Ivory Tower Vantagepoint.

Sure, right now and for a while, people are brainwashed into thinking "oh it has to be Swiss". But, it was not always that way. They gained the top of the hill because others lost it. Others lost it because they did not recognize the basic premise that you have to continue to improve, continue to supply competitively and work within your Industry to maintain a leadership postion.

By withdrawing from a large portion of the Industry, Swatch is setting themselves up for a big problem. The Industry is not going to stop making great timepieces, we are not going to stop loving them and the entreprenurial among us will not stop developing and improving movements so as to fill the void being left by the withdrawl. In the end, vast imrovments in quality, manufacturing, technology and price will result.

Then, the folks in the Ivory Tower will have a long way to fall; they always do.

 

Re: How ETA's Decision to Stop Supplying Movements Affects Prometheus Watch Company and Watch Indust

I wonder if a company like Seiko would sell (in bulk) their ETA eqvivalent movements/
Myota is a step below ETA in quality, I understand?
Soprod are virtually the same, I believe.

 

Re: How ETA's Decision to Stop Supplying Movements Affects Prometheus Watch Company and Watch Indust

We like to fool ourselves, but, at the most fundamental level, we're emotional beings, first and foremost. We're "rational", second (i.e. it appears that all so-called rational thoughts have emotional roots). Advertisers are excellent at exploiting these tendencies, for better or worse.

Even if our decisions were purely or primarily rational, eliminating the perceived equivalence between "Chinese" and "cheap", at least as it pertains to watch movements, will be a long time coming.

In this case, I think it does more harm to consumers, than good. Will certainly be interesting to see how it all plays out. :-!

 

Re: How ETA's Decision to Stop Supplying Movements Affects Prometheus Watch Company and Watch Indust

I become more impressed with Japanese movements with every day that goes by. It's going to be Japan or China that fills the gap left by ETA. If it's Japan, and preferably Seiko, I'm 100% cool with that.

 

Re: How ETA's Decision to Stop Supplying Movements Affects Prometheus Watch Company and Watch Indust

I become more impressed with Japanese movements with every day that goes by. It's going to be Japan or China that fills the gap left by ETA. If it's Japan, and preferably Seiko, I'm 100% cool with that.

+1.
As a corollary to that: But if it's Chinese, I am only 20% cool with that.
Bcz that's been the rate of success Ive seen with Ch watches.

PS: If anyone wants to defend Ch watches/movements, please don't. Not against me anyway. My opinions count for nothing.
You let me live out the rest of my miserable, benighted, days with my most cherished prejudices, and I will let you keep yours, OK?

 

Re: How ETA's Decision to Stop Supplying Movements Affects Prometheus Watch Company and Watch Indust

Has there been any more info about Soprods lately? When I was looking at OWC's watches a few months ago I looked them up. I've heard some say the A10 is just equal to the 2892 while others say the A10 is superior, but didn't see many facts or even just comparisons through general experiences. With the increased price I would hope it would be better.

 

Re: How ETA's Decision to Stop Supplying Movements Affects Prometheus Watch Company and Watch Indust

Asian movements will penetrate the Swiss market easily and quietly. This is why Citizen has bought up smaller Swiss companies. They're going to move Miyota production for some of their calibres into Switzerland (how much of the production, in terms of percentage per movement, I can't say) under a Swiss name. Then think about the debacle we'll have at WUS. "Well, I really like this Swiss watch more because it has the so and so (Citizen pseudonym) Swiss movement, whereas this other one I like just has a crappy Asian Miyota."

I also suspect there is a generational attitude shift towards accepting Japanese products into the luxury segments of the market. So the people who are children today may very well not know that they're supposed to think that Asian people are inferior and unable to make high quality products, unlike white people (Swiss or German primarily). I'm not that old (or young) but I don't even think there was a time in my life that I was introduced to that myth, so perhaps those younger than 30, although not commanding much income yet (it's an unemployed generation) when they one day make a significant income, would be more open minded towards Japanese movements or watches. That's speculation on my part, of course.

 

Re: How ETA's Decision to Stop Supplying Movements Affects Prometheus Watch Company and Watch Indust

I think it is mainly non WIS that think so. Not many WIS would mind to own a European assembled ( = Swiss Made, German Made, whatever) watch with a quality Japanese movement.
But Myiota, are they not (kind of) lower quality? That is my impression after reading many articles etc on the 'net.
Only because it is Japanese does not mean it is of quality
When there were loads of movement manufacturers in Europe, that was the case too.
Now we have ETA, Soprod (= ETA copies) and a handful of others, all of high quality.

The benefit of having an European watch with a Japanese/Chinese ( when they get the quality) is maybe that we will get rid of the pesky script at the bottom of the dial.

 

The older Miyota 8215 is a lot cheaper than the eta and it shows. Their newer 9015 however seems to be equal to eta standards when comparing thr specs.

 

Re: How ETA's Decision to Stop Supplying Movements Affects Prometheus Watch Company and Watch Indust

@Janne,

Just a remark. Soprod is not a copy of ETA movements. The Soprod A10 has a different construction and many parts are not interchangeable. As it was a movement designed in the 21st century its specs are also improved compared to ETA. Its escape wheel is also manufactured by MHVJ which has superior specs compared to the ETA counterpart.

 

Re: How ETA's Decision to Stop Supplying Movements Affects Prometheus Watch Company and Watch Indust

Aside what will happen to the micro brands, I'm curious about the likes of Breitling, Sinn, Tudor, and even IWC. Soprod apparently doesn't have the capacity to meet the demand.

 

Re: How ETA's Decision to Stop Supplying Movements Affects Prometheus Watch Company and Watch Indust

Correct but don't expect those brands to be as open as us micro manufacturers in terms of provenience of their movements or ebauches ...

 

Sellita will take over, no?

 

Re: How ETA's Decision to Stop Supplying Movements Affects Prometheus Watch Company and Watch Indust

No, they won't. Read carefully my blog post.
They simply do not have manufacturing capability to fulfill all existing demand.

 

Re: How ETA's Decision to Stop Supplying Movements Affects Prometheus Watch Company and Watch Indust

I understand Sellita will have a new facility on line in a year and a half.

 

Re: How ETA's Decision to Stop Supplying Movements Affects Prometheus Watch Company and Watch Indust

Yes but majority of that new line will be to fulfill demand for their chrono movement the SW500 (Valjoux 7750 clone) + the SW300 (ETA 2892 clone).
Also during the couple of years till they are up to speed someone else will have to fill in demand.

 

Re: How ETA's Decision to Stop Supplying Movements Affects Prometheus Watch Company and Watch Indust

Thanks for that. Interesting.

 

Re: How ETA's Decision to Stop Supplying Movements Affects Prometheus Watch Company and Watch Indust

There is nobody that can start up a new movement manufacture from scratch.
My guess is that Sellita will expand.

But I see a problem.If Sellita finances a new watch manufacturing facility, ETA can just start selling for a cheaper price than Sellita can.
Bye, bye, Sellita!

 

Re: How ETA's Decision to Stop Supplying Movements Affects Prometheus Watch Company and Watch Indust

But the thing is ETA does not want to sell for cheaper or more; they are withdrawing.
One has to wonder what they might have up their sleeves?
BUT, as long as there is demand, mankind will produce: and as long as that is going on there will be competition for the best price and the best quality: and those options might be from different companies or from high end and low end producers.
WE (the WIS and others that need watches) will benefit.

There is nobody that can start up a new movement manufacture from scratch.
My guess is that Sellita will expand.

But I see a problem.If Sellita finances a new watch manufacturing facility, ETA can just start selling for a cheaper price than Sellita can.
Bye, bye, Sellita!

 

Re: How ETA's Decision to Stop Supplying Movements Affects Prometheus Watch Company and Watch Indust

I would love to know the thinking behind Tudor. They rely on ETA, and have spent lots of money in development of new designs, the brand, and the increase of the case/caseback manufacturing capabilities ( at the existing Rolex factory)
I would not be surprised if Rolex start increasing the movement production for Tudor watches.

 

Re: How ETA's Decision to Stop Supplying Movements Affects Prometheus Watch Company and Watch Indust

I would love to know the thinking behind Tudor. They rely on ETA, and have spent lots of money in development of new designs, the brand, and the increase of the case/caseback manufacturing capabilities ( at the existing Rolex factory)
I would not be surprised if Rolex start increasing the movement production for Tudor watches.

I've heard that ETA will continue to sell Rolex/Tudor the ETA movements. I cannot give you a link, but I do remember reading that from a credible source. If I recall correctly, Rolex/Tudor made an agreement with the Swatch Group a while ago.

 

Re: How ETA's Decision to Stop Supplying Movements Affects Prometheus Watch Company and Watch Indust

true watch manufacture don't need ETA.

 

Re: How ETA's Decision to Stop Supplying Movements Affects Prometheus Watch Company and Watch Indust

true watch manufacture don't need ETA.

True only marketing hyped brands use ETA

 

Re: How ETA's Decision to Stop Supplying Movements Affects Prometheus Watch Company and Watch Indust

To be honest, I don't really care. Industries change and someone, or multiple someones, will make movements for watches. All is not lost.

 

Re: How ETA's Decision to Stop Supplying Movements Affects Prometheus Watch Company and Watch Indust

I thought they were just going to stop supplying ebauches, but I guess they are actually going to limit access to their movements period.

This is tough for many smaller players and I can see large increase in watch prices. However, I don't really know whether this is good at this time when there is general issues with economy looming in the air all around the world.

 

Re: How ETA's Decision to Stop Supplying Movements Affects Prometheus Watch Company and Watch Indust

This isn't new news. If there is a demand for movements it will be filled by a movement maker if watch companies are willng to pay the price. It may not be a nominally swiss name but...welcome to the 21st century. Yawn....