Another option is to do an apprenticeship here in Korea. Is this a good idea? Would this be as well recognized as if I had received training from an established institution?

Hello - first off good luck with your new career. You need to know what kind of watchmaker you want to be before you can really answer the above question. Generally speaking, having a diploma or certification from a recognized insitute will go further than simply doing an apprenticeship.

So you have some options:

- factory service center as above
- working in a jewellery store (at an AD for a specific brand or many brands)
- independent watchmaker - either dealing with the public directly, or running a trade shop

In all of these the formal education will be more recognized. However many factory service centers have jobs for people who are not trained watchmakers, such as polishing, or disassembly of the watch initially. Typically the watchmaker does not "do it all" at a service center, and they focus primarily on the servicing of the movement itself.

Some stores may hire someone to work there in a limited way (probably a lot of battery swaps initially) but they may end up paying for you to go to courses. Sort of a long road to getting the education and skills you need, while making a living at the same time - an apprentice essentially.

If you plan to be an independent, then your options depend on what sort of watches you want to work on. If you plan to service mainly vintage watches, then many parts are available and access is not as big an issue as it is for modern watches. If you plan on servicing modern watches from major manufacturers, then you will likely need education/certification as part of qualifying for a parts account.

Things vary also depending on what country you are in. No simple answers, other than education is never a bad thing.

Cheers, Al

 

Hello - first off good luck with your new career. You need to know what kind of watchmaker you want to be before you can really answer the above question. Generally speaking, having a diploma or certification from a recognized insitute will go further than simply doing an apprenticeship.

Archer thanks a lot for the advice. That is a very important question the I wasn't really thinking about. I guess generally I had an idea, which is that I'd like to first of all have the expertise to be able to disassemble, reassemble, fix, manufacture, fit and service watches (sorry I'm not sure on all of the lingo to describe these things.) And secondly, with having the schooling and expertise to be able to get a job initially working for a watch company that I love (ideally something like Vacheron Constantin) and eventually down the road to open my own business buying and selling watches (and of course, servicing them.)

I don't want to work changing batteries for fashion watches, but if it's a necessary step to get where I want to be I guess I'll do anything that I have to. With regards to working with vintage or modern watches, I honestly can't see it as making any difference to me as I have a love for both kinds.

It seems that you're saying it's best to have the schooling if possible... so I will keep looking into this. Things are feeling a bit overwhelming with the options and where to start or the best path to take, but in time I can hopefully find my way.

Thanks a lot for your advice :^)

 

If you can get in touch with the regional distributors (or sales directors) for Bergeon, they should have some insights into available training. If they are still open, there is Hiko and Tokyo Watch Technicum in Japan, Nic Hayek (Swatch) campuses in Shanghai & Kuala Lumpur and many of the Chinese watchmakers list a polytecnic school on their resumes. Modern distance learning hasn't reached the watchmaking trade yet. Two master instructors (who are or were school directors) have strongly advised that they want to look over the students' shoulders to assure the best educational outcome. More than one forum member is struggling with this same issue.

p

 

I have two ideas for you. One would be to find a copy of the Chicago School of Watchmaking course which can be had on ebay for about $25 in its entirety. The downside of that is that it's a bit dated, and you'd be learning on your own.

The other option would be the Gem City Clock and Watch Repairing home study course. I'm doing it myself, having just started earlier this year. The only issue to work out would be that they would require an American mailing address for you. So if you could arrange that, you'd be good to go. Watch Repair School, Clock Repair School, Watch Repair Training, Clock Repair Training, Hand Engraving Training, Watch repair training

And after thinking about it a while, I can't believe I forgot the third alternative. http://www.timezonewatchschool.com/WatchSchool/ It's a great way to dive right into servicing a movement. It's not real expensive, very well documented, and gives a great first time experience in taking a movement apart, cleaning, oiling, and reassembling it.

 

I have two ideas for you. One would be to find a copy of the Chicago School of Watchmaking course which can be had on ebay for about $25 in its entirety. The downside of that is that it's a bit dated, and you'd be learning on your own.

The other option would be the Gem City Clock and Watch Repairing home study course. I'm doing it myself, having just started earlier this year. The only issue to work out would be that they would require an American mailing address for you. So if you could arrange that, you'd be good to go. Watch Repair School, Clock Repair School, Watch Repair Training, Clock Repair Training, Hand Engraving Training, Watch repair training

And after thinking about it a while, I can't believe I forgot the third alternative. TimeZone Watch School Home It's a great way to dive right into servicing a movement. It's not real expensive, very well documented, and gives a great first time experience in taking a movement apart, cleaning, oiling, and reassembling it.

I'm going to look into this stuff directly, it sounds very exciting! Thanks a lot

 

well mate here is what i think you should do.

as i was in the same situation as you are now with no watchmaking school in country.
first you will find a good watchmaker and try to get in his office as aprentice, you will just change straps, batteries crystals etc etc, after they see if you're capable of doing it they will start giving you some other jobs (you will ask for it surely), dismantling assembling of movements and after some time whole overhaul of movements.
also as Archer said you could enroll in some importer house for watches, if they hire you and they see that you're good worker and you have "the thing"you could get a reward and they might send you on some education for the brands they import
after 3 years of being aprentice you can sign in on wostep courses in switzerland(best one is 6 months one refresher course).

wostep is recognizedby the swiss watch producers and if you buy the necesary equipment you should not have any problems with account for spare parts of the brands with the wostep certificate.

best way is if you could take the whole wostep course i think it was 3 years .

i hope i put some light on your problem mate as i did have the same one..


br
emso

 

well mate here is what i think you should do.

as i was in the same situation as you are now with no watchmaking school in country.
first you will find a good watchmaker and try to get in his office as aprentice, you will just change straps, batteries crystals etc etc, after they see if you're capable of doing it they will start giving you some other jobs (you will ask for it surely), dismantling assembling of movements and after some time whole overhaul of movements.
also as Archer said you could enroll in some importer house for watches, if they hire you and they see that you're good worker and you have "the thing"you could get a reward and they might send you on some education for the brands they import
after 3 years of being aprentice you can sign in on wostep courses in switzerland(best one is 6 months one refresher course).

wostep is recognizedby the swiss watch producers and if you buy the necesary equipment you should not have any problems with account for spare parts of the brands with the wostep certificate.

Finding a watchmaker to do an apprenticeship is what I'm looking into now. Based on what everyone's said, I think I'm figuring out what I should do.

I think now what I will do is to study watchmaking on my own by ordering books, courses and tools and practice at my home as a hobby. Aside from this, I will keep looking for a watchmaker to take me on as an apprentice. If I find this, I'll be ecstatic. If not, I think I'll still be overjoyed with just being able to delve into this by myself (as a hobby.) I'll stick with my teaching career here in Korea, and then later on in a few years after learning and practicing watchmaking myself (and maybe getting experience as an apprentice) I could try getting more serious about it, by applying to schools or perhaps just happening upon a career in it some other way.

Thanks everyone for the fantastic advice... you've been really helpful!

 

I would suggest to the OP to become a hobbyist first and learn on your own. You will need to invest $200-$500 in tools and a few vintage watches and practice. If you can consistently overhaul movements without breaking anything, it means that you are ready to ask yourself if you want to turn it into a full time job, or just do it as a hobby.

 

I would agree vbomega. Becoming a hobbyist watch maker will give you plenty to learn on. Get some good books, start collecting tools on ebay or wherever and have at. There is no reason if you are talented that you can't become an excellent watchmaker without the certificate. You obviously have what it takes to complete a certification later when chance provides but there is no reason you can't start learning now. I am a goldsmith and hand engraver by trade have been able to self teach watchmaking to the point where I can overhaul simple movements and build entire watches, case, dial, crown and all starting with a ready made movements. This is the level I wanted to be at and I did it on my own. I got tired of working with the local hack watch makers and decided next time I need a hack watchmaker I'll do it myself. Eventually I found my own hand adequate and preferable to the local watchmakers. You want it done right you have to do it yourself.

 

Maybe I am too cautious... Your thoughts about changing career, given your circumstances come over as a little too whimsical to me. You have responsibilities, and you have a job, and are completing a course of training to enhance your qualifications in your previously chosen line of work. At twenty-eight and married, you may soon have additional responsibilities on the way. Watchmaking is not an easy gig to get into as a man approaching thirty, and it may not pay you well for a good while.

My most honest advice as a non-watchmaker would be to go the way suggested by Robb Ludwig, James and vbomega and develop your skills as a hobby watch maker. You have a living to earn and throwing over a steady job in pursuit of some 'grail' existence would seem reckless to me, to put it mildly. This is my honest advice as a man with sons about your age. I apologise if it sounds patronising or harsh. Your first need is a decent job that pays. Don't put that at risk. If I had a daughter your wife's age, I would be even more concerned.

 

Thanks for the advice Tony, I think you have a very strong point. Do I want to gamble with my future or not? The age of 28 I feel is not young, but it's not old either. And though I regret not finding this passion when I was a younger man, I am thinking I have a better chance of doing this now than if I would wait another 10 years when I'm going on 40. But what you've said has really sunk in and will make me consider this even more carefully. I don't find your words harsh or patronizing, it's something I need as I must admit I'm more than a bit blinded by my dreams at the moment.

 

A good "first step" that you can probably do where you are is to take a general course in machining. Learning how to use a micro-lathe properly goes a long way towards not only becoming a watchmaker, but also in making the road cheaper and easier. Even setting aside the value of being able to turn and replace balance staffs (probably the most common repair you'll ever need to do), there are thousands of little tools that watchmakers use for specific tasks that can be very expensive to buy (especially if you only need to use them once in a blue moon) but are almost trivial to make if you know how to machine and mill.

 

There's always Paris (Texas): Paris Junior College | Affordable Excellence

 

i started working as watchmaker at age 29 if that satisfies you mate

if you like it go for it, you dont want to spend rest of your life asking how it would be if i tried.
besides you can always find a job as english teacher in korea
at least i think

 

I know what you mean. Well, right now I'm downloading the "Chicago School of Watchmaking Full Course", over 700 pages (according to the description). And this weekend will study watchmaking kits and tools and how to get spare parts. I'll probably search this forum to learn as much as I can about where to order these, hopefully not too big of an investment. Then will look into getting my hands on some vintage mechanical pieces, have to figure out a place to do that too.

I've come across some websites selling vintage mechanical watches in the $100-200 range (not sure of their credibility though) but I'd like to get practice restoring and servicing these watches, disassembling and reassembling (I'm really excited about doing this, lol, must seem so strange to most people.) Still looking for an apprenticeship here, and then I'll just see what happens with this. In either case I'm psyched about dipping my feet into this :^) I'll post some pics later on once I get something going

 

A quick couple of things.

About the cost of things--nothing in watchmaking is cheap. And you really do get what you pay for. From my own experience, I know that the cheap sets of watchmakers tools on ebay are just that: really crummy. I have heard someone here say the Indian screwdrivers are ok, so there are some exceptions. But don't go cheap on the tools because you'll hate them as soon as you open the box. Tweezers, too--get good ones. There's a thread here on starter tools: https://www.watchuseek.com/f6/getting-started-guide-watchmaking-tools-688276.html in case you haven't found that yet. I started with the toolkits from Time Zone Watch School and haven't regretted them.

About watches to start learning with, this is where to go cheap. Really cheap. You're going to break things. You're going to lose things. It happens. https://www.watchuseek.com/f6/beginners-mistakes-what-did-you-break-630469.html This is where I'd recommend going on ebay and buying the really inexpensive Chinese stuff. I've bought one or two for like $25 delivered. Start on a couple of those. Even though a watch is old, doesn't mean it's junk, so save the better watches for when you've gained some skills.

 

I would go with vintage Swiss watches, but I am biased. You can find sub-$10 old Swiss watches on eBay.

 

Actually on age the average(mean) in my class for WOSTEP was 32. The class ahead of me was 37, so age means nothing as long as you got the money. There are a lot of watchmaker jobs but you need the ability to move for them. Working for Vacheron is going to require the best training. They won't take a self taught, you must have gone to school.

 

Hopsandclocks thanks for starting this thread. I've had this in my head for many years as well. Thanks to everyone for their input.
I have a few watch mechanisms on the way. Bought cheap as they don't work or only work for a short period then stop. I will need to get tools and I'm looking into that now. I agree with whoever wrote about the cheap tools. I've purchased cheap tools in the past for other tasks, bike repairs mostly, clearly you get what you pay for.
I don't plan to go into business just make it a hobby for myself. I had a local shop destroy a clock on me and figure I could ruin a hundred year clock as well as anyone, watches too, so why not.
I am a firefighter as a profession and at 46 years old I'm really looking forward to a gig after retirement that gets me up in the morning.

So how's that for a first post. I go back to lurking for a while.

Thanks.

 

Some information here, it'd be interesting to you: https://www.watchuseek.com/f6/apprenticeship-wanted-673896.html

 

Go to the Watch School.com & start with paying $ 75 for the beginners at level 1. Build up your knowledge & go for level 2. Meanwhile , keep in touch with other schools that are available to your liking. Good luck. I believe, wages for watchmaker are not very favorable. Just to be mindful.

 

The average salary a starting Watchmaking can expect is about 50k this number varies based on location do to cost of living and this is only in America.

 

what about the wostep trained watchmakers you think they can get more?

thanks

 

I've been going to school for watch and clock repair for 3 years in Pennsylvania. So far, I know that none of the schools I have been to (2) have a proof positive way of instructing someone. If you want to work for Vacheron Constantin, you'd probably have to be trained in house by their company. I have a friend in Singapore who had to do that to work for Audemars Piguet, though he took a year long watch course to learn how to service Swiss watches first. That school is now shut down though.

If you are starting out on repairs, an early American size 18 watch would be better to start with in my opinion. The parts are far less breakable than many others and everything is large and visible. If it has a case that isn't gold plated it should be pretty inexpensive as well. I was instructing a friend of mine who was switching from clocks to watches with medication that made his hands shake on one of those. He still broke a pivot on the balance staff accidentally, but everything else went very smoothly. Just make sure it isn't full plate or else it will be trickier than you need starting out. Moving over to a Swiss watch afterwards, since that seems to be what you'd ultimately like to work on, would be a good next step. A broken watch with a time only eta movement that you might think you'll wear can probably be found on ebay pretty easily.

Learning yourself would be great, the Chicago School of Watchmaking has really nice lessons and pictures of necessary tools in the beginning, I believe (though not all great for starting out, and many are no longer available). Google books has some free books on watch and clock repair as well, though they are dated.

 

Everyone's personal situation is different so I don't want to try to judge yours. But at the same time, I certainly don't want to discourage you from a potentially great career. I do agree with those who have recommended starting as a hobbyist, but I'm biased since that's how I started. But I did have an advantage in that I was able to get some professional training: City College of San Francisco was one of many schools offering watchmaking classes in the past who have since dropped them. I was incredibly lucky to get in under the wire; I do think that a structured class situation is a big help in mastering the basics.

But fundamentally I decided to learn the art because I couldn't find anyone reliable to turn to. I had no intention whatsoever of making it a career. It just happened. As more and more people started soliciting me, I cut back my real job to part time. After two years of part-time work I quit my 23-year career and turned my back forever, and have not regretted it for a second. I consider myself blessed to have found such a rewarding second career that I enjoy so much that every day -- including weekends -- I wake up looking forward to tearing another watch to pieces and putting it back together again.

So, again relying only on personal experience, you may want to look at easing your way into the trade rather than making a major life-altering career change before you are absolutely certain it's where you want to go. Watchmaking is wonderfully rewarding, but there are times when it can be incredibly frustrating......... I'm sure my fellow watchmakers will agree. But overall, I would never want to go backwards again.

 

Everyone's personal situation is different so I don't want to try to judge yours. But at the same time, I certainly don't want to discourage you from a potentially great career. I do agree with those who have recommended starting as a hobbyist, but I'm biased since that's how I started. But I did have an advantage in that I was able to get some professional training: City College of San Francisco was one of many schools offering watchmaking classes in the past who have since dropped them. I was incredibly lucky to get in under the wire; I do think that a structured class situation is a big help in mastering the basics.

But fundamentally I decided to learn the art because I couldn't find anyone reliable to turn to. I had no intention whatsoever of making it a career. It just happened. As more and more people started soliciting me, I cut back my real job to part time. After two years of part-time work I quit my 23-year career and turned my back forever, and have not regretted it for a second. I consider myself blessed to have found such a rewarding second career that I enjoy so much that every day -- including weekends -- I wake up looking forward to tearing another watch to pieces and putting it back together again.

So, again relying only on personal experience, you may want to look at easing your way into the trade rather than making a major life-altering career change before you are absolutely certain it's where you want to go. Watchmaking is wonderfully rewarding, but there are times when it can be incredibly frustrating......... I'm sure my fellow watchmakers will agree. But overall, I would never want to go backwards again.

This is a second career for me as well, and I echo everything you have said. There's no substitute for having an instructor watching you work, checking what you are doing and how you do it, and offering advice right there on the spot. But before making that comittment, knowing that it's something that will suit you is important, because I don't think this work really suits everyone.

Cheers, Al

 

I don't know if somebody already mentioned this, but I noticed a couple of people speaking about non certified work in the watch industry. You might was to take a look at TimeZone Watch School Home It is just 3 basic courses that only cost $75 dollar per course. You get to disassemble an ETA movement and learn how it works and how to put it back together...among other things. The only kicker is you need to shell out for some tool sets but they appear to be working with Ofrei.com (Time Zone Tool Shop) and they have put together sets you can buy for each course. You appear very serious about perusing a career in this anyhow, and you would need tools regardless of which direction youj would take in your education. Maybe this simple internet course might be beneficial for getting your feet wet in watchmaking. It might also put you light years ahead of other students in your first year of certified classes providing you choose to take them

Regards

Brad

 

Very well said. I'll also add my emphasis on the importance of walking away when you get impatient or frustrated. That can be a hard thing to learn. My tendency is to want to keep hammering at a problem until it's resolved, but that can be very counterproductive. It's better to step back and do something else for a while, then return with a fresh attitude and perspective. It's astonishing how often a problem that seems impossible to overcome suddenly becomes simple when you have taken time to refocus and calm down.

The other fundamental rule is never, ever force anything. If something isn't going together easily, stop and figure out why. Or take a break and come back later. There's always a reason.

 

look for information here :

Swatch Group - Home

if you enroll in the program for a 100% study with them... you don't paid anything for the 4 years carreer... let me know !

 

Exactly, see Pithy gets it.

 

I liked the story about the repetetive pocket watch pocket watch repair exercise. It brought to mind one of the things that is overlooked about the difference between a professional in a given trade and an amateur. I have worked in at least two trades which are often practiced by hobbyists, cooking and fine cabinet restoring and refinishing. I have seen some amazing work done by amateurs, but a professional can do the job in a 5th of the time and repeat the process time after time. This is the level of skill that is necessary to make a business work, you can't make money if it takes you two days to turn around a job that the market will only allow you to charge for 5 hours work on.
Get yourself a mentor, if you are serious, as well as some education. Someone from the "old school" not a "part exchanger". One observation I have made from working in an obscure trade (restoring piano cases) that was once very common, in a way not dissimilar to traditional mechanical watchmaking, is that those that managed to hang on or get training from someone who really did it the "old school " way could charge what they liked because the skills had largely disappeared and there are very few left to do the job.

 

I Taught myself from what I read on the net. I'm wearing a nice Constellation I restored from a wreck and I've put the JLC in the box. That was a wreck once, too. My last was a soviet chronograph which was yet another wreck. All the guys and girls at work bring me watches to mend. It is a good sideline. I've paid for my tools and get a great buzz from it. I began six years ago and have worked from Timex to Rolex. Just do it for fun and as you build your skills, people will find you. When you think you know enough, turn pro. Good luck.