welcome to watch-reality

try google "swiss made"

 

According to Wikipedia:



Swiss Made defined by law

Swiss watch

A watch is considered Swiss, according to the Swiss law if:

• its movement is Swiss and,
• its movement is cased up in Switzerland and;
• the manufacturer carries out the final inspection in Switzerland

Swiss watch movement

A watch movement is considered Swiss if:

• the movement has been assembled in Switzerland and,
• the movement has been inspected by the manufacturer in Switzerland and;
• the components of Swiss manufacture account for at least 50 percent of the total value, without taking into account the cost of assembly.

If a watch movement is intended for export and will not be cased-up in Switzerland, but it otherwise meets the criteria to be considered a Swiss movement, the watch may say "Swiss Movement" but it may not say Swiss Made on the watch case or dial.
A watch that says "Swiss Quartz" is considered to be a proper Swiss watch. However, it is often improperly used by foreign manufacturers to merely indicate that the quartz movement is of Swiss origin.

The 50% Rule for Swiss Made watches

Use of the Swiss Made label for watches is covered by an ordinance of the Federal Council dated 29 December 1971. The Swiss standard is often pejoratively referred to as the 50% Rule. However, it has its basis in real life economics. Again, the law merely sets forth a minimum standard. The famous or infamous Swiss Made Ordinance has, for a number of years, been subject to many criticisms, particularly inside the industry, because it is considered too lax, but also in legal circles, where the view is that it no longer fully meets the legal mandate specified in the companion law on trademarks.

"It is not generally known that quite a few Swiss companies have watches assembled in China for export to North America, Asia and even Europe, where the brand name is more important than the "Swiss made" label. Such watches may consist of a Chinese case and a Chinese crystal, a Taiwan-made dial and metal bracelet and Japanese hands. If the movement is to be considered Swiss, 51% of its value must be Swiss and at least the last wheel must be added in Switzerland. Swiss watch brands without the "Swiss made" label are usually equipped with a Japanese movement. The "Swiss parts" label means that the movement is assembled in Asia using kits consisting at least partially of Swiss made components."
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This makes my friends with fake watches laugh at me.we both have the same watch but I paid 20x more for mine

 

Makes me think of the hypocrisy of it all-

I think there's a lot of creative marketing and construction interpretation going on in the "Gen" Swiss world.

 

I wonder if other brands such as Omega do this more, would be curious what if any parts of say Rolex or the like are produced in China, I would guess possibly some for Tudor but would be very surprised if they did for others.

Also somewhat surprised Omega would let the part go out with anything on it identifying the place of manufacture is china.

A little disappointed some parts are made outside of Switzerland given the cost

 

Does anyone care? The Chinese ability to make a metal link is surely adequate? There is Chinese manufacturing , and there is 'Made in China' which is often used as a derogatory term.

 

This has been the case for a while. Many more parts are likely Chinese made as well.

 

If it can be or have been manufactured in China with the same quality for less then shouldn't the price reflect it?? I'm willing to pay a swiss worker and there benefit for the work but if a Chinese watchmaker is willing to do it for less then sell it to me for less

 

Looks like you have some interesting theories about market price formations, haven't you?

 

Many months ago, when I saw the differences in hand feel and heft of the bracelets on the PO 8500, SMPc and AT 8500 - and commented that it seemed the bracelets were now made in China - many here laughed at that notion. But I documented quite clearly the differences between the old SMP and the new SMPc bracelets, especially in poor finishing. Even M4tt came to agree with me.

Of course, I'm resigned to it. I've gotten used to the bracelet on the Skyfall AT and think, for the most part (a link near the clasp tends to jam every now and again), it's on a par with the older Omega bracelets. But I never could get used to the SMPc bracelet or the PO 8500 bracelet. I even entertained getting an old SMP bracelet for the SMPc, but just decided to flip the watch instead.

Given that Rolex exists to drive a foundation that mostly benefits people in a few cantons of Switzerland, I imagine it would be counterproductive for them to outsource to China. But Swatch already was doing tons of business with China suppliers for the lower-tier brands. It was only a matter of time before they moved those savings up to the top-tier brands too.

 

I agree Rob. I had the exact thoughts comparing the bracelets in my last four Omegas. The newest AT is flimsy almost. I also have the same thing a link towards the clasp occasionally locks up by folding over in itself.

 

guess where your latest all singing cell phone was made.

 

Switzerland? :-d

 

Meh.

Slow news week, i guess.

 

it begs the question for me at least what other parts are made there....

with cell phones and other gadgets that are somewhat price competitive I can see it, but high end luxury watches where you're paying for the mystique of the brand and what not then for me at least it is a bit of a let down. I could deal with possibly just deployants and tang buckles, but for me at least when I am paying literally thousands for swiss made, well that is what I hope I am getting.

 

I agree. I find this to be a very disturbing trend. Now i dont feel so bad that I haven't bought any "luxury" watches since my kids were born. If I'm going to plunk down thousands on a watch and I'm expecting Swiss I would be furious if parts were made in China. If I felt inclined to buy a Chinese watch it would be because I was knowingly doing so; and likely because I wanted to spend a minimum on a watch. I think the Swiss industry had better rethink their standards.

 

At the prices Omega charges I find this unforgivable.

 

This.

 

I thought it was just me who had problems with the bracelet on the AT8500 and all this time the focus was on the PO .

 

It's not a new phenomenon. I saw a Speedy bracelet in factory packaging years ago, and it had a similar label stating "Made in China". Based on this, I'd say the old PO bracelet was similarily sourced from China.

I think here in EU it's mandatory to clearly indicate where the product was made. In most cases the AD is smart enough to remove the tags, as the price they charge for bracelet or the links does not very well match the made in China image.

 

I thought it was just me who had problems with the bracelet on the AT8500 and all this time the focus was on the PO .

 

Yeh, but is it the Swiss part of China?

And yes, agreed, the iPhone 'designed' in California, but made in ...........

 

And we are surprised? With the labour costs in Europe did you really think you watch was manufactured in Switzerland? No it's like any manufacturer - and premier brand claim to be xxx made - that's just where it gets asassembled.

When Hong Kong was under UK rule I was there hosting some buyers from a large UK retail group. After the visit we had some free time and when asked what they wanted to do they all said 'go shopping in China'. This threw me but the locals knew what they meant. And so we took them to the border they hopped over to a mall just the other side and bought every watch under the sun. At the time I questioned one of our locals and said 'Fakes?' Answer was 'how can it be fake if its all genuine parts just not assembled in Switzerland?'. It was a wake up call for me and I know one of those watches (a Rolex Oyster) is still going strong some 20+ years later (not that I own one). On other trips since I have seen both good and poor replicas but that's down to personal choice I guess.

Lets face it we are all brand snobs or we would not be on this site but are you really that nieve to think Swiss Made is really Swiss Made?

i think I missed a trick there all those years ago back then a watch was just a watch oh how things have changed!

Cheers

 

And we are surprised? With the labour costs in Europe did you really think you watch was manufactured in Switzerland? No it's like any manufacturer - and premier brand claim to be xxx made - that's just where it gets asassembled.

Considering the outrageous price increases on Swiss watches over the past few years (all in a bad economy too). Yes. I'm surprised. I would think that the increase was due to a rise in Swiss labor rates and material costs. Seems like its more of a profit grab.

 

Another good reason to buy vintage,lol.

 

The Chinese can manufacture anything as good as anyone else within spec.

If so desired I am sure any country can design and make anything - afterall some of the most successful movement design concepts are English, albeit made in Switzerland to varying degrees.

 

while I agree that the Chinese can and do make high quality goods (just use Apple as an example) its more of a principle thing, we are paying thousands in a premium for swiss made, and getting something else. It would be like me finding out that a good part of the Allen Edmonds shoes I buy is made overseas and all the people do here is sew them up or something.

 

100% made in a country to my mind would include the raw materials, the sourcing of these in that country, refining, and finally parts manufacture from the refined metal etc........ Fairly likely you couldn't attain 100% Swiss using those constraints, although I admit I am not totally up to speed on Switzerland's mineral reserves, this is just an assumption.

I am happy to have a watch meeting the rules of "Swiss made", whether those rules should be more stringent is another argument, but we can all be reassured our watches meet these. When arguing how "Swiss" something is, I always wonder how far back in the chain of manufacture you should go, and I guess it is this point why the rules exist.

 

I don't see it that way, with the raw materials that is, rather I would see 100% whatever made to have most of the major parts fabricated by the company and then assembled by said company, if you were talking screws and springs or whatever then that would be fine to source to me, but major parts such as the case, bracelet, movement, etc should all be done in country that is claimed to be the origin.

 

yes i have the same problem with the AT8500 bracelet...and now i notice the quality of the SMPc, it seems to be lighter than the old SMP. its very bad if i lost my watch while diving just because of low quality bracelet. ihave the two tone AT8500 with yellow gold bracelet too, i hope that this gold bracelet is not from china

 

Don't worry ... there's not much gold in that bracelet. Just a thin layer wrapped around the center links (as opposed to the solid gold center links on Rolex TT bracelets).

 

do you mean its gold platted??? i thought it was solid gold, All the central links, bezel, crown made from solid gold???
if it has a little gold on it, why its so expensive ? (10k$)
its this one
The Collection Seamaster Aqua Terra Mid Size Chronometer - Steel - yellow gold on steel - gold - 231.20.39.21.55.002

 

do you mean its gold platted??? i thought it was solid gold, All the central links, bezel, crown made from solid gold???
if it has a little gold on it, why its so expensive ? (10k$)
its this one
The Collection Seamaster Aqua Terra Mid Size Chronometer - Steel - yellow gold on steel - gold - 231.20.39.21.55.002

The bezel, crown, hands and markers are solid gold. Only the center links are not. They use a solid steel core, around which they wrap about a 1mm layer of 18k gold. If you take a link out and push up the center link so that you can see its side, you'll see what I mean. Omega has been doing this on TT bracelets since the mid-90s. The only downside is how much polishing the bracelet can take before the gold layer starts to get too thin ... only a problem if you keep the watch for decades and have it serviced several times.

Omega's TT models are not cheap, but generally much less than Rolex (although with the Speedie '57 TT that price difference could disappear).

 

Just studied my AT bracelet and I now believe maybe Omega have over engineered this - the problem seems to occur when the half links are folded over onto the clasp joining links, which are also half links. Outside faces of the two links then face each other and semi lock up.

If the half links were solid and not hinged this would not happen, so I believe they have over designed the bracelet!

 

If this is true that Omega makes bracelets in China, then I find this surprising and disappointing. I don't have a long history with Omega, but have always felt the bracelet on my PO could be better. After reading here that some of the long time fans have actually noticed a recent reduction in quality, then it makes me wonder what the decision makers at Omega/Swatch are thinking.

 

They are thinking that, with a net margin of 10 percent, a company must sell an extra $10 to produce an extra $1 of profit, but can produce that same extra profit by cutting costs by only $1.