Click bait.

You meant that they are not selling the ST19 in small quantities.

I don't see any problems with this, because it will just mean that microbrands can band together and buy in bulk from Seagull if their resolve is to use the ST19.

 

That’s the problem, according to seagull only the brand that buy those movements can use them so whether the possibility that microbrands can share the movements is still a question

 

I'd better learn how to service my ST19 since the prospect of my being able to buy a replacement to drop in looks like it is going to become much more difficult.

 

Couldn't you just buy a few to have in stock, just in case?

 

I think someone will step in to fill the void for sure. Where there is demand supply will follow. Just may take some time. I’d love to see citizen or seiko release an alternative.

 

Yeah, nobody is going to tool up to make that thing.

 

Exactly right. Sea-Gull only finally realizes they can limit the amount of these gorgeous historical movements with legit Swiss tooling so they are not sold for cheap prices from watch brands? It's so hard to tool for movements and the ROI can be insurmountable which is why micro brands always use the existing movements of Selita, ETA, Seiko...and Seagull.

 

 

What are your thoughts on this? […] Share your opinions down below.

Since you've asked: I can't imagine that there is anything in this universe that interests me less.

 

Tell us how you really feel about this topic, @Moonshine Runner 😉🤣🤣

 

Capitalism always finds a way.

 

 

@Shpeil I was thinking you were more concerned with catastrophic failure than just lubrication.

 

Now that you mention it, catastrophic failure is a real possibility with the ST1901! Mine has had a few "moments". It's still working but I don't trust it to get me to the train on time.

 

Meh. We'll just see more Seiko quartz chronos. Maybe more Miyota quartz, too. With a smattering of Swiss quartz - while ETA is not selling mechanical outside Swatch Group, their quartz movements are available. Here's to hoping more smaller brands dabble in Precidrive, and Chronis with actual GMT function, instead of "24hr subdial."

And/or, some other Chinese company will start manufacturing their own version of the ST19.

 

Life as we know it is now over.......

 

And....here we go.

 

10,000 units doesn't seem much. How small of a microbrand are we thinking here.

 

10,000 is big. How many watermelons and variants do you think Studio Underd0g sells in a year?

 

Kind of a shame. I really like affordable ST19 powered chronographs. Many micros use them with volumes in hundreds, so that market will dry up. Not expecting new column wheel chronograph at this price point to be created anytime soon.
Seagull branded watches can be nice, but this will severely limit design language options.
I have 2 w ST19 and both are nice

 

A middleman distributor will now sell them, they are not going anywhere watch manufacturers will buy from a vendor instead of from Sea-Gull

The price will go up but the movements will still be available for purchase.

Maybe the price will stay the same as Sea-Gull will just be shipping larger orders to few customers. I am sure they will not be shipping 10,000 at a time but filling orders of 10,000 for a yearly order over the course of a year. Beats dealing with 100's or 1000's of small venders.

 

The company that bought old Swiss manufacturing machines and helped build the shameless copy market over the last 20 years now wants to restrict other shameless copy brands from their old Swiss manufacturing machines. Hilarious.

With the increasing ubiquity of the Sellita 210/215 over the last few years, I'm surprised Citizen/Miyota hasn't restarted their discontinued handwind movement. Or, now that there's an opening, maybe a cheaper LJP chrono?

 

Yes, the irony is palpable and laughable.

 

Good. Now maybe someone will step in and offer an actual reliable option.

 

And if they do the watch will cost what other in house chronos cost, defeating the purpose entirely. Not even Seiko is going to release a new mechanical chrono for less than four figures.

 

I think that stops movement brokerage companies, like Mark mentioned, rather than a handful of brands coming together to make a bulk purchase to be divided among themselves. Only time will tell. I doubt many single brands will be buying 10,000 movements at a time from them, so when the money dries up we might see Seagull add some exceptions this position of theirs.

Or they intend to phase it out, which wouldn't be a surprise. It's been in production for a very long time.

Since you've asked: I can't imagine that there is anything in this universe that interests me less.

You cared so little that you clicked into this thread and left a comment.

10,000 units doesn't seem much. How small of a microbrand are we thinking here.

Most microbrands do runs in the hundreds not thousands. This puts it out of reach for them if brokers are carved out of the market.

 

Or they intend to phase it out, which wouldn't be a surprise. It's been in production for a very long time.

I think it is more likely that they want the movement to be a Sea-gull exclusive movement than to discontinue what is most likely their most popular and definitely most respected movement. Seems like discontinuing it would be bad business.

 

Brilliant marketing experiment.
Regards, BG

 

 

I just bought a ST1901 on eBay. It was the last one they had of that size. They had quite a few a week ago. They still have a very few of the 38mm size. Harbor Watches on eBay (an American seller, 100% feedback).

Yeah, it was Marc that sent me scurrying. I had eyed that watch from that eBay seller for about 3 years, he used to have lots of them.

I may have paid too much, but I wanted one of these for years... 42mm, Sapphire, Swan Neck. $250 (Islander wanted $75 more $).

 

... and you tried to get me to click on a link.

 

Did anyone pick up this MOQ only applies to non-swans neck movements?!

Line 2 of the notice (in Chinese)

“2. 适用品种：ST19 系列所有品种（鹅颈簧机心除外）”

“2. Applicable products: all products in ST19 series (except movements with swans neck springs)”

(Not “head spring movements” as translated in video - I totally get why the term is automatically translated like that, but I am a Chinese speaker even if a bad one)

I did scratch my head about “鹅颈簧” (literally translated: swans neck spring). Regulator should be translated as 微调. I asked my HK watchmaker for a second opinion - he opined Seagull is referring to the shape of the spring on the regulator - viz, a swans neck regulator.

So, should the notice be simply read as Seagull imposing MOQ on non-Swans neck ST19 movements only? Swans neck ST19 can still be ordered <10,000 units? This will be consistent with Studio Underd0g obtaining the ST-1901B, which does have a swans neck regulator.

Will be helpful if Marc and/or Marvin query this explanation with their Seagull representatives and share their clarifications.

 

Short memory or many of you weren't into watches pre-2000...At that time ETA supplied watch movement to almost every watch brand out there. I don't know the exact figure, but it was well over 50% and probably closer to 70% Tag, Breitling, Oris, IWC, Ball, Tudor, Bell & Ross and I'm not even scratching the surface of the brands that used ETA Movements. In 2002, Swatch CEO Nicolas Hayek announced that ETA would stop supplying movements to outside brands by 2006. But COMCO stepped in and forced ETA to continue supplying movements until 2010. It's the reason Selita (who was a parts contractor for ETA) started using ETAs expired patents and started producing clones for many of the brands that ETA stopped supplying. It's also the reason other watch manufacturers started developing their own in-house movement. Prior to this barley any Non -Swatch (ETA) brands outside of handful of higher end brands had their own in-house movements, brand like Patek, JLC, Zenith, Rolex, AP, Vacheron.... Seagull isn't ETA and doesn't have the might that ETA had back in 2000s. Overall, watch movement are much better and the watch movement industry is in much better shape because of Swatch's decision to stop supplying other brands. But just like Selita, another brand will start manufacturing a clone based off the original ST-19.

 

Because of this thread, I purchased two ST1901 watches last year. Both with swan neck regulator. Paid about $80 each new. I remember when these were $200 two years ago and I thought it was bargain then. Now it's absolute steal. Amazing watches for the money.

 

But just like Selita, another brand will start manufacturing a clone based off the original ST-19.

They have a high failure rate (note this is relative) and one area of concern is the click spring. It is hard to produce a high parts count column wheel chrono movement for well under $100 and be dead reliable.

This. The ST19s take a lot of manual intervention to get right.
If it is easy we would’ve seen a lot more clones already.

 

Not really, it's the adage of supply and demand. Before this pullback by Seagull the demand was being met, if someone was going to build one to compete, they were going to have to undercut Seagull on price, the same way someone would have had to undercut ETA before the 2002 Swatch announcement. And the margins are razor thing, considering you can buy an Ali Express watch with the ST-19 for 75 bucks, there wasn't any $$ to be made competing with Seagull on this movement..... But the market has now changed just like it did back then with ETA and if Seagull is only selling in quantities of 10K, you no longer have to undercut them, in fact you can add a premium.
And while manufacturing a column wheel chrono is harder than a cam actuated, that is not a roadblock at all. If "getting it right" was an issue, we wouldn't see post after post by members here asking if this Rolex/Omega/Breitling etc was a fake....Manufacturing technology has grown in leaps over the past 20 years.

Just an FYI: The ST-19 is a clone of a Swiss movement made by Venus that was introduced back in 1942. The Venus caliber 170 series.

I'm sure the void will be filled, it always does. Necessity breeds opportunity.

 

I guess it's a big deal to people who like their dual subdial layout chronos mechanical.

For me, ST19 are total spastic scheissste anyway.

I was kept from buying many a watch with the subdials at 3 and 9 BECAUSE of this scheisste ST19.

With the Seiko VK chrono movements now so plentifully available and so widely installed, I see no problem.
Enjoying mine as we speak: