Meh... I just realized the one with the red star on the dial is actually 40mm... so a case swap might not work.

 

... However, I'm really not crazy about the name. It sounds like they're a little too desperate to sound European.

A fair point. I have been unable to find any link between the Pierre Paulin brand and the company run by the family of the famous furniture designer of the same name.

 

In this video the reviewer says that Merkur acquired the brand Pierre Paulin in 2019.

 

I really like the white panda dial design of the Pierre Paulin models from Merkur. However, I'm really not crazy about the name.

Not nearly as good as Deer Fun or Wancher.

 

Deer Fun

I sent an Email to Wancher letting them know that their name does not sound pleasant and that a name change would result in more sales. I don't feel bad about it. I am just trying to help.

 

FYI, Red Star makes two versions. I don't know if you can find them on AliX. But there are Taobao agents who can help you buy on Taobao.
Links below-

One of them looks like an HKED 1963 that they call the ED verison. I hope HKED knows they are doing this. @hked

淘宝网 - 淘！我喜欢

淘宝网(Taobao.com)作为专业的购物网站拥有全球时尚前沿的消费者购物集市,100%认证网上商城及超值二手商品区，同时购物安全，产品丰富，应有尽有,任你选购,让你尽享网上在线购物乐趣！

item.taobao.com

淘宝网 - 淘！我喜欢

淘宝网(Taobao.com)作为专业的购物网站拥有全球时尚前沿的消费者购物集市,100%认证网上商城及超值二手商品区，同时购物安全，产品丰富，应有尽有,任你选购,让你尽享网上在线购物乐趣！

item.taobao.com

 

Thanks for the heads-up MLW. I initially found out about the fakes of my ED63 watches on AliExpress from a FaceBook post. The poster only mentioned his watch arrived with a detached crown. It looked like my cream panda, so I asked him where he bought if from, and he attached a link to an AliExpress shop.

A lot of people don’t know there are unscrupulous shops out there and assume they are sellers authorised by me. To reiterate, my website is the only official shop selling my HKED watches. Anyway, the poster contacted the fake seller and was told to get it fixed at a local watchmaker at his own expense! The fake was only slightly cheaper than purchasing directly from me, and good luck if you need a refund or warranty repair. “Buy the seller” is a mantra I often use.

 

Thanks for the heads-up MLW. I initially found out about the fakes of my ED63 watches on AliExpress from a FaceBook post. The poster only mentioned his watch arrived with a detached crown. It looked like my cream panda, so I asked him where he bought if from, and he attached a link to an AliExpress shop.

A lot of people don't know there are unscrupulous shops out there and assume they are sellers authorised by me. To reiterate, my website is the only official shop selling my HKED watches. Anyway, the poster contacted the fake seller and was told to get it fixed at a local watchmaker at his own expense! The fake was only slightly cheaper than purchasing directly from me, and good luck if you need a refund or warranty repair. "Buy the seller" is a mantra I often use.

There are so many of these "fakes". I've bought several "fake" Sea-gull M199S to mod around with. Just brushed up the case for my first and put it on one of those nice sailcloth straps from Aliexpress for $20. I thought part of my mods would include replacing pushers and other gaskets since it's got those toothpick pushers on the left side of the case as well.

I talked to people and gathered that the ST19 products are all mushroom brands who purchase from Sea-gull who makes and supplies the movement. The only genuine Sea-gulls with ST19 are now pretty expensive. For example a genuine M199S is around $1300 USD +/- $300 depending on promotions, sellers, and discounts.

I've seen your HKED ST19 watches from so many sources. They seem identical since all the casework and pushers pretty much seem to come from one supplier (or multiple suppliers producing 1:1 products). Is it possible your supplier is simply also producing surplus and reselling? How do you differentiate the quality of your product from the illegitimate ones?

This 1963/ST19 saga is truly interesting. From what I've gathered it has basically developed the following way.

Sea-gull produces all the ST19 variant movements
Some person/people realised the old Tianjin 1963 chronograph is worth creating an illegitimate reissue of and this has blossomed into various mushrooms called Red Star with sub-suppliers galore.
More people get into the action while some original producers of those initial mushrooms also diversify and start introducing variants e.g. sapphire crystal, different bezel, 40mm, 42mm cases etc, different dials, different names/"brands".

I've actually bought (and sold) plenty from different "brands" and different sellers. They all strike me as coming from the same factory or being made in different places using the exact same equipment. Only within the same "model" of course.

 

My Panda Dial arrived today. At first, I was shocked at how small it appeared. There is a HUGE difference between a 39mm Watch and my New Merkur Pierre Paulin Chronograph at 38mm. I got over it quickly as vintage 35mm Patek Chronograph models sell at auction for $100,000 to $300.000. The Beige strap was cheap as described in the YouTube reviews and I fitted a Black Smooth Calf Leather deBeer Strap to it that coincidently arrived today also. Now I feel like I own a Hamilton Intra-Matic that only cost me $209 plus $24 for the Strap, as opposed to a $1,500 Hamilton. In closing, Yes the White Chrono Hand should have been Black in my opinion. However in White, it gives the Dial a less cluttered look. One can always just choose the Reverse Panda if contrast is important. I just hope I get my $209 worth of life out of the Watch. If it came on such a Cheap Strap, Merkur cannot be proud of it and it makes me wonder what other corners they cut.

 

Out of the dozen or so ST19 powered watches I've had (sold some because I'd buy several at a time for small discounts and in case I'd want parts or use as beaters... I'm weird), the movement is truly not the best when it comes to QC, assembly, reliability. I'd say 1 in 3 has minor issues and 1 in 5 has major issues. All fixable though and to be fair, at these insanely cheap prices, this kind of quality, QC, and general refinement (or lack thereof) is more than expected.

I've worked on a few of the smaller issues (with much swearing) so no biggie and the replacement movements are both ubiquitous and affordable.

The best quality overall ST19 watch is Aidophedo's (ST1908 with moonphase and date) and Escapement Time (ST1901 bi-compax two register). They're more expensive and Escapement Time doesn't touch the ST19 anymore due to mentioned poor quality. I know it's hard delivering a decently decorated column wheel chrono for under $300 USD. The cheapest Swiss 7750s cost many times more and they have cases manufactured in China and probably much more done outside Switzerland.

I'm surprised at how decent the illegitimate M199S are. They're available on Aliexpress without the Sea-gull logo on the dial for about $220. Solid feeling cases like the Aidophedo and Escapement Time. Sapphire crystal front and mineral back, tested one passed 30m and surprisingly passed it (claims 50m resistance). Every place that should have a gasket has at least one so no surprises. Features a Sea-gull made ST1908 movement. So I'm left wondering why Sea-gull's actual M199S costs around $1300 USD while something almost identical can be bought for around $220. Yeah the Sea-gull factory actual M199S is probably using a better grade movement, more carefully and cleanly assembled, comes with Sea-gull's backing after sales etc etc and probably a slightly more refined case and dial. Still the dollar difference is not worth it for me. Shows what these mushrooms are capable of producing nowadays.

HKED does Sea-gull factory make your cases and assembled your watches? Do the movements actually come in different grades like people suspect or is it really just fairydust and perhaps more careful adjustment and regulation? If a supplier does everything, perhaps we are all buying from one or one of several common suppliers where the mushrooms and legitimate overlap several times. At this point, dollar and value become front and centre of all considerations. There is no brand prestige or provenance unless we're talking about actual Sea-gull products but Sea-gull themselves seem more than happy to erode their own reputation by dealing with, accepting, and probably even participating in "shady" practices. My personal conjecture and opinions. So why should we care? The quality is there and the price is just stupidly good.

Edit: okay the quality can be hit and miss. The cases are pretty much nearly there but the movements (from Sea-gull themselves!) are 1 in 3 with small minor issues and 1 in 5 with $150 watchmaker visit level issues.

 

Is it possibly your supplier is simply producing surplus and reselling? How do you differentiate the quality of your product from the illegitimate ones?

HKED does Sea-gull factory make your cases and assembled your watches? Do the movements actually come in different grades like people suspect or is it really just fairydust and perhaps more careful adjustment and regulation? If a supplier does everything, perhaps we are all buying from one or one of several common suppliers where the mushrooms and legitimate overlap several times. At this point, dollar and value become front and centre of all considerations. There is no brand prestige or provenance unless we're talking about actual Sea-gull products but Sea-gull themselves seem more than happy to erode their own reputation by dealing with, accepting, and probably even participating in "shady" practices. My personal conjecture and opinions. So why should we care? The quality is there and the price is just stupidly good.

Edit: okay the quality can be hit and miss. The cases are pretty much nearly there but the movements (from Sea-gull themselves!) are 1 in 3 with small minor issues and 1 in 5 with $150 watchmaker visit level issues.

Apologies for the late, late reply but I've been very busy lately. No, I have spoken to my manufacturer, Thomas, many times on this subject and he doesn't supply my watches to others. He mentioned there are many factories making fakes (of Seagull, HKED and Red Star watches), and Seagull has is restricting sales of movements to them.

There are common issues with the ST1901 that can be fixed, and I spend many hours on QC prior to shipping to weed these out. They are returned to my manufacturer for adjustment and regulation, and tested again and again before they reach the hands of my customers. Thomas is surprised at the low prices of various fake models because some are even lower than the cost of producing his own watches! So we believe many corners are cut during production of these models, including inferior movements and parts. Thomas sources all his movements directly from Tianjin Seagull and orders may take months due to the increased number of micro brands using the ST1901 movemwnt

It is not inconceivable the case and pushers came from the same factories, as the Chinese watch industry has contracted greatly over the last few years, and many factories have closed. However, as mentioned above, it is likely they are rejects or parts that did not pass muster.

Customer service before AND after sales is extremely important to me and is certainly lacking when purchasing from unofficial sources. I've received many requests for parts and servicing for these watches, but Thomas and I do not touch them. As I mentioned in a previous thread, a buyer was told to get his new watch (with snapped stem and fallen off crown) repaired at his own expense at a local watch shop. It may be OK if you can repair it yourself, but the worth of a seller is known when problems occur and whether or not he stands behind his product.

We should care because the race to the bottom (in terms of pricing and quality) is detrimental to all parties in the long run.

 

For ST19 chronographs, i think i'll go to sellers like Lamberti with good warranty that last a little more longer...

Manual chronographs

lamberti-orologiai.com

 

I have the Pierre Paulin Chronograph with ST29 movement and am having a hard time getting response via email from Philip at Merkur Watch. Via video i sent him of the watch, he says the tip of the balance is broken. I did not cause this damage and as the watch was purchased in December, it should be under warranty. Does anyone know how long I should give him to get back to me about sending it back for replacement or repair or what to do if I do not get any further responses? Should I be posting this question in another place in Watchuseek instead?

 

On alibaba you can buy the pierre paulin chronograph without the name on the dial. I believe these models come from the manufacturer although it may also be the case that they are clones. Regardless, here is the link: Vintage Style Panda Color Mechanical Chronograph Watch Simple Design Stainless Steel Wrist Watch - Buy Mechanical Chronograph Watch,Simple Design Mechanical Watch,Panda Color Wrist Watch Product on Alibaba.com

 

I'm actually kind of curious in regards to buying one of these things, although I'm worried about the quality control in regards to the movement.

 

I would be worried too. I have been hanging out in the Chinese watch forum since around 2018.
I can tell you one thing. I won't buy any mushroom brand watch. I live in Shanghai and can buy most of them for cheap on Taobao, but I have read so much about QC being hit or miss that I spend my money on other things.
If you can flush the money it costs for the watch you want to buy down the toilet and not be sad then buy the watch and take a chance.
That is my two cents.

 

Damn Just orderd this watch! We will see when it shows up