[avincent52]

What's the general consensus on reluming? (or is there one?)
In many vintage watch ads, the seller notes that the watch has not been "refinished or relumed."
But I also hear WISes talking rather casually about having their watches relumed, the same way they might talk about having a movement serviced?
So which is it?
More like a refin? (a universally bad thing)
Or a service? (a good thing if done correctly)

best
Allen

 

[jmsrolls]

Allen,

My watchmakers advised me against a relume of my 321 Speedy. Instead, they recommended replacing the original dial and hands with new and retaining the old.

Reasoning:

Reluming results can be dissapointing and why risk messing up the originals.

I intended my 105.012 to be a daily wearer and wanted it to look as good as possible but did not want to give up the look of the original parts should I ever want to restore it.

Fr. John+

 

[eptaz]

I'd consider it acceptable to relume some watches, but a vintage Speedy wouldn't be on my list. I think Fr. John's approach is best. If you want that new look and a nice glow, I'd pick up a new dial and hands. Once you remove that old tritium, it's gone for good.

eric

 

[mamas]

i would never re lume any of my watches

 

[avincent52]

Eric
Educate me. Under what circumstances would a relume be a good idea? Why is the Speedy the exception?
(FWIW, I'm not going to do it, but I do wanna know your thinking.)

And playing devil's advocate, Fr. John, (oops, sorry) what's the point of putting a new dial and hands on an old Speedy, assuming the old ones are basically pretty decent as yours seem to be?
If you like the look of a new face and hands, why not just buy a new or newish watch?
Can't you buy two nice, late model 861s for what that 321 is worth?
And is there any problem with removing and storing the old dials and hands?
best
allen

 

[Sgian Dubh]

I like the yellowed look of old tritium -- it's what helps a vitage watch look vintage.

If the dial is completely unreadable, I might consider refinishing, otherwise all I do is give the watch a full service and cleaning. I have never refinished a dial to date.

 

[eptaz]

Of course, it's all about the individual and his priorities, but I think it comes down to a couple things.

Firstly, some people are just kooky for lumey goodness. They must...have...lume. On other forums, I regularly read about people reluming vintage watches, though they're not often Omegas. Heck, I've read about plenty of people purchasing a brand new watch, and immediately sending it off to IWW to have better, brighter lume applied.

Another issue is if the lume is damaged or discolored to a point where it detracts from the overall appearance. The hands on my blue c.1040 Seamaster chrono had turned almost black. After a long, internal debate, I decided to bring it closer to new condition. There were a few considerations. When I purchased it, I had only seen a couple of these. I didn't consider it a very desirable model, and the price helped confirm this. Also, I never plan to sell this watch. It's my birth year watch and it's a keeper. So resale value isn't a consideration.

Why do I consider Speedy and exception? I guess just because it's exceptional. How's that for solid reasoning? I just wouldn't mess with Speedy.

eric

 

[jmsrolls]

Eric
Educate me. Under what circumstances would a relume be a good idea? Why is the Speedy the exception?
(FWIW, I'm not going to do it, but I do wanna know your thinking.)

And playing devil's advocate, Fr. John, (oops, sorry) what's the point of putting a new dial and hands on an old Speedy, assuming the old ones are basically pretty decent as yours seem to be?
If you like the look of a new face and hands, why not just buy a new or newish watch?
Can't you buy two nice, late model 861s for what that 321 is worth?
And is there any problem with removing and storing the old dials and hands?
best
allen

Allen,

I purchased my 105.012 three years ago for less than $1300 which is about what a used 3570.50 was selling for at that time.

The dial and hands were in good condition but the lume was totally gone. The originals are safely locked away in a bank vault and can easily be reinstalled at any time should I so desire.

And a 105.012 is a true moon watch while a 3570.50 is a "moon watch". Why have a watch similar to the ones worn on the moon when you can have the real thing? ;-)

Here it is in it's original condition:

Fr. John+

 

[M4tt]

The fundamental issue is that older Omegas use tritium, a radioactive compound with a half life of twelve years to excite a photo luminescent compound. A half life life of twelve years means that, on average, after twelve years half of the tritium will have decayed (lost the extra neutron - that's why it is tritium) to form ordinary hydrogen - and so on. The upshot of this is that for a Moonwatch made in, say, '69, there will be less than one eighth of the tritium remaining - which isn't very bright. When you combine this phenomena with the degrading of the photo lluminescent material as well you are left with a pretty dull dial.

Even older watches (I'm not sure if Omega were among them) used radium - a far more radioactive source with a half life of 1600 years but they will give you cancer - this is the chemical that killed Marie Curie and Rosie Barnes - so if you find a very old military omega and you can still see it in the dark then you should worry!

 

[gatorcpa]

Many Omegas used radium...

... particularly the military spec models:

I've read about this a little bit, and there has never been a recorded case of cancer caused by simply wearing a radium dialled watch. The same cannot be said about the poor dial painters exposed to radium on a daily basis. A lot of these people (mostly young women) were kept ignorant of the dangers and were encouraged to paint themselves with the radium, while their bosses wore protective clothing.

http://www.runet.edu/~wkovarik/envhist/radium.html

A shameful chapter in business ethics.
gatorcpa

 

[georges zaslavsky]

I would go with reluming. I am completely against a luminova dial and hands on a vintage speedy. People who relume watches perfectly are rare. I know two of them where I live who do this job perfectly. Changing a dial and hands is not restoring a watch, it is just looking a solution of facility.

 

[avincent52]

Gator
For those who don't read the link, these young women were told to "Point" the with their lips everytime the tip got flattened a bit, usually a half dozen or more times per dial. They were essentially eating radium.
Shameful, and all too typical. One of my grandfathers was a window washer who fell off a building, the other was cleaning an oil tank when it exploded. I won't even talk about my father and my brother in law who both died of work-related illnesses.

When we were playing catch the other day, my 10-year old asked me what superpower I'd like. "Time travel" I said without hesitation. If it didn't have an expiration date, I'd pick up a couple of Speedy 321s.

Thanks, though, to everyone who contributed to a rather rousing and educational thread.
best
Allen

 

[M4tt]

Thanks for the excellent article - I really enjoyed it.

To be honest I have no idea about how one would go about finding a direct casual link or lack of it between wearing a radium watch and contracting cancer.

However, what I am absolutely sure about is that there is no safe minimum dose of radium. I'm also pretty sure that a watch of that age will not be airtight and the original lume will have produced plenty of highly radioactive dust which it will gradually scatter around your home, on your skin and into your mouth and lungs.

As a heavy metal it is one of those substances that your body simply cannot get rid of so it will eventually migrate to your bones and just sit there being highly radioactive for the remainder of your life. Even when it eventually decays it produces radon gas which is still highly radioactive.

Sorry if I am reiterating my point rather forcefully but I don't think this risk can be understated.