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Victorinox Fieldforce series – Reviews & line-up

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#1 · (Edited)
Victorinox Swiss Army - Fieldforce series


This thread is dedicated to Victorinox Swiss Army (VSA) Fieldforce watches, most particularly their most common reference, the 241848, which starts the line. Those could be roughly defined as :

  • Field watches.
  • Swiss made.
  • Entry level of Victorinox's line-up.

We will start by an in depth review of one model, and will subsequently present the variations available.

I - REVIEW

a - History

Victorinox is a renowned Swiss brand, founded in 1884 by Karl Elsener. Despite being known for their Swiss knives (which they first provided to the Swiss army in 1891), it's only in 1989 that they started applying their expertise to watches, with an independent subdivision of the motherhouse, Swiss Army Brand. Inc. The Swiss Army brand was later reintegrated to Victorinox, but even nowadays, they aim to remain faithful to the style that popularized them : functionality, quality, and rugged yet classy design.

The Fielforce lines embodies that will while being adjusted to nowadays trends. But how successful is the resulting trade-off ?

b - The Fieldforce



First introduced in 2019, the Fieldforce is the successor of the Chrono Classic units, replacing the pure chronographs in a more diversified line. Its size is also a compromise, with an homogeneous 42 mm instead of the 41 to 45 mm diameter of the latter.

The overall design is that of a field watch, aiming for functionality, but with an even more pronounced emphasis on legibility. Let's see how that applies to one specific model, their blue dial unit.

Reference : Fieldforce 241848.

Base specs :
  • Case size : 42 mm.
  • Case thickness : 10,5 mm.
  • Case back: solid, stainless steel. Screw down.
  • Lug width : 21 mm.
  • Lug to lug : 50 mm.
  • Total weight : 70g (case + bracelet).
  • Water resistance : 330 ft - 100m.
  • Pricing : $350/325€ recommended retail price.

c - Dial & bezel


The dial is simultaneously the one of the greatest assets of this watch, and one of its letdowns. Indeed, while the case is of a relatively common 42 mm diameter, the dial covers 37 mm of those ; compared to ≈ 33 in more typical designs. This translates into a better legibility, while making the overall proportions unusual, as the watch appears like big headed (or flattened) when compared to the average.

This large, clear dial, is associated to sword edged minutes and hours hands, both generously sized and lumed. The seconds hand has a more singular design, with a counterweigh and color constituting a nod to Victorinox's Swiss knives, while the shape elegantly and precisely thins and extends near the outer chapter limits. Despite being the only one not lumed, all of them do contrast perfectly with the slighly textured space blue background.

Remarkably enough, the crystal is both sapphire and triple anti-reflective coated in a quite effective fashion. It protrudes from the case of the watch, exposing it to shocks, but as both flat and scratch resistant, this isn't a big deal.

The markings demonstrate a mix of painted markers and applied indexes, conferring a tridimensional aspect to the hours numbers ; further enforced by the smart appliance of a reflective material on their outside. The intelligence of this design resides in the combination with a yellowish inner lume : during the day, the outer part shines an the eye fuses the whole parts in some gold colored numbers, evoking a naval captain's uniform with the dark blue of the dial. And at night, the numbers turn to a shiny, visible green, ensuring that the legibility remains maximal. Really smart design here.

The smartness continues with the 3 o' clock markers replacement by an arrow like triangle, simultaneously highlighting the date window's position and luming the hour ; while avoiding a truncated marker. Same for the iconic Victorinox shield at 12 o' clock, gaining space for the below logo.


Now, this is an entry level watch. And while the dial seems molded to ensure the correct positioning of the then applied indexes, the centering of the movement itself isn't perfect, as the slightly downwards date and day wheels suggest. While minor (the view angle makes it look worse than it actually is), this could increase the frequency of misaligned hands issues

Second, while the bezel cleverly displays the minutes, it doesn't rotates. Not that important in fact, as it retains a diver inspired look (VSA's watch activities started with the diver looking Lancers) and in the end extends the dial. But it will surprise those used to a functionnal one. It's also just painted aluminium, which suggest it could age badly if scratched, but the outer layer of steel and the slightly protruding crystal (which is paradoxically more resistant than the bezel !) might prevent that.

d - Crown, case & water resistance


Despite being protected from lateral shocks by the case, the crown is very easy to pull and operate. Too easy for my tastes at first, as I feared it could accidentally get pulled, it appears to have just enough friction for this not to happen. Combine that to its push-pull conception, and to VSA's shield engraving, and we've got a quite pleasant crown to use.

This non screw-down nature might be what limits the water-resistance to 100m, but this is a non event : 100m is already excellent for a field watch, and more than enough to swim. I've gotten it immersed a few times, and it seemed to fit the bill.

The case itself impeccably alternates between brushed (for the flanks) and highly polished finishes (for the upper parts), creating a visually pleasant variety, and demonstrating VSA's mastery of stainless steel. It's also quite flat, and will thus sit comfortably on equally plane wrists.

e - Caseback


Plain, and screw-down. In other words, no unnecessary fancy here (this is quartz watch after all), but a practical and reliable way to ensure water resistance, and easy service. You will notice along side the reference that there is also a serial number, which, among other tools, helps fighting against replicas.

f - Movement

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Delving inside that case, we discover a Ronda 517 movement. Contrary to what I thought for a long time, this is my first experience with a Ronda. And I've got mixed feelings about this. It features :

  • 3 hands, central seconds.
  • 3 o' clock day-date window complication.
  • 11,5" caliber - 25.6 outer diameter (26.0 mm max), 3,00 mm height.
  • Powerful rotary stepping motor with deadbeats seconds (1 step/s).
  • Fully metal components, for better repairability.
  • 3 positions crown, including a hacking function and quick date but also day correction.
  • -10/+20s per month.
  • 45 months ≈ 3½ years battery life (SR920 = 399/395 battery).

It proudly boast its one jewel (but which man ever needed jewels ? XD). Jokes aside, as usual there are two versions of this movement, but VSA's seems Swiss made rather than Swiss parts.

Theoretically, the battery life is a bit longer than average, it has a nice day-date complication, and so would feature everything one would need. The problem is the execution : as part of the Powertech line, which is the entry level of Ronda, it has quite a lot of backlash.

If you're not familiar with the term, let's just say that there is space between the teeth of the gears, to ensure they operate without too much friction, and better resist to shocks.

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The issue, is that this space is variable, and that if it varies too much the hands will be taken in a farther or shorter distance than intended. And that, for hands with significant kinetic energy (such as the seconds hands), this will translate into visible misalignment, as the hand will travel more (or less) than the distance between two markers.

And so the seconds hands of the Fieldforce are somewhat misaligned. I've done a bit of research regarding this, and not only all the non-chrono Fieldforces (with visible motion hands in videos) were affected, but also the watches of other brands featuring a Ronda 517. Contacted on this topic, Victorinox kindly and honestly confirmed me this is mainly due to the movement. So, while it's not catastrophic (mine is acceptably aligned with 50-60% of the markers), there is not much that can be done to improve it. Still, coming from a simple ISA 1198 which was able of maintaining it's alignment, this is a disappointment. Yet, though frequent enough, its amplitude is moderate enough not to hinder the read.

The minute hands also suffers from some backlash, as its alignment varies depending if it's on the ascending or descending half of the dial. However and contrary to the seconds hands, it's not that noticeable (it's at most ¼th of a minute too low on the descending part, and perfect in the ascending on mine). But, as it moves by very pleasant increments of 1/60 of a minute (the dial is sol legible you actually see those every second), it's really a pity, because it had the potential to become an extremely precise display.

Image

Regarding accuracy however, things get better, with between +6 and +7 seconds per month deviation for a watch worn 70% of the time, translating into a decent +0.25 spd average. This means that after one month, not only your watch won't be late, but that you can be reasonably confident in it being off by less than 10s. Which I consider reliable.

Also, the design seems to be good, as the hands aren't that affected by the quick setting of the day or the date, or even one by another. In some entry level Asian movements, moving the minute hands or changing the date could create unwanted movement on the seconds hands, this won't happen too often here.

So overall, there's good and bad to this movement. Hence my mixed feelings about it.

g - Strap

The 241848 features more colors, but also a leather strap. Not only this one is very agreeable to the eye and to the touch, enforcing the classy watch design, but it is also well thought, with features such as quick-release bars. If you've ever fought long and uncertain battles with vintage bracelets, you will know how extremely pleasant a quick release is : no tools required, easy to take off and most importantly easy to put back. Really nice touch here.


And, considering how comfortable that bracelet gets after the break-in (it's a bit stiff at first), this attention to detail only adds to the pleasure of use. The outer layer is quite smooth, but, contrary to the inner one, generously shined. So in case you get a mini-scratch, just brushing it with a damp cloth will spray the shine again, effectively erasing the scratch.


Classy, comfortable and well designed, this strap would near perfection. The uncoated stainless steel buckle tends to scratch however, but some would argue this is unavoidable.

h - Lume

Some have said that Victorinox's lume was often on the weak side. I do not know if they only have eyes for Seiko divers, or if it's an impression of the past, but I kinda disagree :



Compared to a 25 years old tritium lume on the left, and an average Luminova equivalent on the right. As you can see, it's quite powerful in fact. And this is after 4H of regular daylight exposure, so its not even full charge (which you'd get with a torchlight). In practice, the hands but also numbers start to glow by merely entering the lightest shadow, ensuring the legibility isn't hindered. The seconds hands isn't lumed though, but night readability still is one of the strong-suits of this watch.

i - Overall

It's a good watch, but not as good as it could have been. The movement induced misaligned seconds hands in particular are a pity considering how extremely precise could have been the read otherwise. Also, I subjectively think that while the atypical proportions are one of the secrets behind its masterful legibility, going for a 41 or 40 mm case instead of 42 while keeping the bezel width unchanged would've allowed a close performance, while delivering a more consensual field watch design.

Yet, this watch has qualities, with a legibility among the very best ones I've witnessed (to the point the read can sometimes require only a fraction second). And, in the end, delivers function with a classy look.

ProsCons
  • Extreme legibility
  • Moderately misaligned hands
  • Smart & classy design
  • Atypical proportions
  • Field watch capabilities
  • No custom colored date wheels
  • Quite affordable
  • Uncoated steel = scratches
  • Comfortable & practical strap
  • Relatively shock resistant
  • Sapphire crystal
  • Lightweight
  • Thin
 
#2 · (Edited)
II - Fieldforce line

There are plenty of variation of this watch. While most are built on the same base, this isn't always the case. I will list them below, as well as links to other reviews. If you want to share here your own review of a Fieldforce, whether it's listed here or not, don't hesitate !

1 - Base Fielforce

a - Leather strap


Simple variations of the basic day-date model, they introduce us to the most common color themes of the Fielforce line : blue (closer to space blue) ; black ; and as presented below, white dial.


Movement and pricing are unchanged. You will notice however that other details change with the color scheme, with the metal parts of the hands here swapped to a more contrasting black, while the outer edges of the applied indexes now exhibit a silver color. Functionality-wise, this is the same watch than the one reviewed, but with a dial now matching the color of the day-date window. Thus gaining in elegance what it loses in contrast.

Base Fielforce (€325-$350)
  • 241846 = black dial (+ black leather strap)
  • 241847 = white dial (+ black leather strap)
  • 241848 = blue dial (+ brown leather strap)

b - Metal bracelet

Basically the same watches than above, with the same movements and color schemes, but featuring a stainless steel bracelet instead of a strap.


Victorinox started and remains a knives manufacturer, and so metal works, particularly stainless steel, is their area of expertise. The finishing and robustness of their units' metals is thus often surprisingly good for the price. And that of course applies to their bracelets, with this model extending the alternation of brushed (outer links) and polished finishes (on their center links). This gives a touch of elegance over a rugged conception, which might be the very spirit of the initial Swiss Army Brand watches.

The preocupation about solidity is also highlighted by the lock, as while being a butterfly deployant type, it also features an additional safety clasp to ensure it doesn't open inadvertently ; and that while the Fieldforce constitutes the first model of their official workbook. While aesthetically perfectly complementing the case, it of course bulkens aspect and weight, with +60g compared to the leather option. Remarkably enough, this leads us to a 125g total which is identical to the former Lancer 100, despite the watch being 42 instead of 39 mm.

Steel bracelet Fielforce (€415-$425)
  • 241849 = black dial (+ steel bracelet)
  • 241850 = white dial (+ steel bracelet)
  • 241851 = blue dial (+ steel bracelet)

2 - GMT

Spread in a regular and sport line, they feature a mix of straps/bracelets option mixing both origins.


Though the 515.24H movement obviously differs, it's from the Ronda's same Powertech line. The characteristics are therefore similar, with the date complication being traded for that additional 24H GMT hand. Thus, the battery consumption (45 months) is in fact exactly the same, they come with the same 1 jewel nickel plated versions (regardless of Swiss Made or Swiss Parts), and the same dimensions. Hence, the case is exactly the same than the base's, and the quick date change just becomes a GMT setting function.
So, while the hands' alignment seems somewhat better in the pictures, what I've seen seems in fact similar to the original model, which is moderately misaligned.

That being said, the same intelligence also applies in the design, since the 24H markers are cleverly deported in a previously empty section of the watch, its center. And the GMT hand is not only lumed, but adapted to show the indexes of that new 24H subdial ; while the ease of read of the regular chapter remains unchanged. Clearly a smart design for a GMT ; contrary to some 24H main dial watches (such as the Glycine Airman 22) there won't be a learning curve just to read the time. ;)

Leather strap GMT (€365-$375)
  • 241895 = black dial + black strap
  • 241931 = silver/blue dial + bright brown strap

Steel bracelet GMT (€415-$425)
  • 241896 = blue dial
  • 241930 = black/silver dial

Sport GMT (€415-$425)
  • 241897 = black/orange dial + orange rubber strap

3 - Chronographs

Labeled either as « Sport chrono », with rubber bracelets and bolder color schemes ; or as « Classic chrono », with dressier tones and sunburst dials.


As the denomination implies, all of them are chronographs, and thus feature a different movement : the Ronda 5030D. This one is from a completely different line than the 517's Powertech, and features 6 to 13 jewels with either a nickel or gold plating (depending on if Swiss Made or Swiss Parts), a battery life of 4½ years (54 months) and a 6' date window. Thus you can expect it to behave differently from the basic Fielforces'.

With a sub-seconds hands, you'll probably won't notice the hands misalignment issues as much as with the 241848, though losing in readability for common time reading. However, I've only checked a handful of units, but once the chronograph is in action the seconds hands alignment still felt similar to the 517. Ronda still is Ronda.

Do expect thicker (12 mm) and heavier watches (+30g ≈), with a parallel price inflation due to this movement upgrade (+150€/$). The hands become pencil-like, while the chronograph parts of the dial have a different radial finish, improving the visibility of the complication over regular day time. That line also flashes some dual tone models with glints of gold on the case and bracelet, but with a price tag now nearing the double of the base Fieldforce... Expect price tags just below those in the Sport line, starting with rubber straps and ending with black PVD cases and bracelet.

Classic Chrono

Leather straps (€470-$500)
-241900 = silver sunburst + bright brown strap
-241928 = black sunburst + dark brown strap
-241929 = blue sunburst + black strap

Steel bracelets(€520-$550)
- 241901 = blue sunburst
-241899 = black sunburst

Steel bracelet/gold dual tones (€565-$600)
-241902 = grey sunburst + gold
-241903 = silver sunburst + gold

Sport Chrono

Rubber straps (455€-$475)
  • 241891 = black/yellow dial + black strap
  • -241892 = black/orange dial + orange strap

Rubber straps + PVD case (550€-$575)
  • 241893 = gray dial + black strap
  • 241963 = black/orange dial + orange strap

Others
  • 241889 = black/red dial + black strap (470€)
  • 241890 = black/red dial + black PVD bracelet (€565-$595)

4 - Others

There is a titanium limited edition of the Fiedlforce.


While the movement and case dimensions remains unchanged, the styling varies, with a deep red bezel echoing with the outer red of the markers. And of course, it's lighter than the steel version, with about 56g (compared to 70). One thing that is remarkable though is the finishing of the titanium, which despite being darker toned than the steel version, achieves a brushed polish which is unusually shiny compared to the normal matte/stale characteristics of the metal. Is it worth the 500$ (+150) compared to the base one ? Well, it's up to each one to decide, but with only 500 units produced, shipped only to NA, the question won't be asked to everyone anyway...

¤ ¤ ¤

Thanks for the read, folks ! ?


A few more links for those wanting to learn even more about the Fieldforces :
- Watchonista's review.
- Watch Report's review.
- A
WUS review by another member.
- Caliber Corner's Ronda section.


Thread v1.1b - 2021-05-23
 
#5 · (Edited)
I beg to differ. Both Swiss parts and Swiss made versions are 1 jewel and nickel plated. Remember this isn't the Normtech (715 etc.) but the Powertech line, which is one step below. Even at the time where they used ISA, their movements, on their very first watches, those already were Swiss made. 🔎

Now, this seems to be the only movement of the whole Ronda line-up which features a day-date complication at 3', which explains why they chose it over a 7xx one. But while the day-date is nice, the misaligned hands are really a letdown. I think either Ronda should consider making a Normtech version (717 ?) or they should've switched to an ETA for their day-date quartz.
Bring it down to 40mm. Ditch the day function and make it an auto or (GASP!) handwind!
But thank you Victorinox for filling in the shield at 12. You need to do that more often!

Thanks Trias for the review!
You're welcome Zaphod !

I agree 40 mm would be more in line with the expected size of a field watch. Besides, the dial would still be 35 mm (instead of current 37), which is still two more than the 33 of an average 42 mm. So legibility would still be at the rendez vous. They would have to remove one marker to do so though, but this isn't a big deal.

What is however is the movement. I don't see that watch only with a mechanical movement since it's supposed to be accessible and practical, and at the entry level customers might prefer the convenience of a quartz. Victorinox always started its lines with quartz in fact. Yet, as an alternative, why not ? :unsure:
 
#6 ·
Very nice review and pictures.

I have a few of this brand and IMHO it is underrated. Well made, nice finishing, decent accuracy, all for a good price.
 
#7 ·
Very nice review and pictures.
Thanks ! I'm no professional, but I did my best to make a review as complete as I'd wish them to be.

As for the pictures, there's been intense amounts of misery underneath (one doesn't realize but watches get small particles of dirt deceptively quickly ; and those are extremely visible on close-ups under sun's light), but hopefully I managed to acceptably clean them with Photoshop. ?
I have a few of this brand and IMHO it is underrated. Well made, nice finishing, decent accuracy, all for a good price.
It's an excellent brand, they make very functional watches, with classy and smart designs. However, I think along the years the average diameter of their units have inflated a bit much. But I think it's going back to settle on some middle ground, as hinted by their new Alliance models, which are 40mm instead of 44 :

Image
 
#8 ·
Updated thread (v1.1) !

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  • Added the line-up section.
  • Added the links section.
  • Minor style and orthographic fixes.

I must say, the Fielforce must be among Victorinox's units with the most variations (with the INOX), so there was quite a lot to unpack. Yet, the thread now looks reasonably complete, and should now be friendly enough for other members' impressions on most of those. So if you wanna share your opinion, spotted a mistake or disagree on something, don't hesitate to say it ! ;)
 
#9 ·
Within hours of the press release of the Victorinox Swiss Army FieldForce Sport Titanium LE, I was online ordering this watch from the Victorinox Canadian website. I've owned a couple of their watches and have never been disappointed with the reliability and value that comes with any Swiss Army/Victorinox product. I've now had this particular watch since the first week of Dec/2020. It is an absolutely striking watch to look at, exceptionally legible, it keeps fantastic time, it's incredibly light weight and it receives compliments on a regular basis. Like all of my working watches I replace the factory wristbands with a silicone wristband. There's nothing wrong with the factory rubber band that comes with the watch, I just like the suppleness, durability and feel that silicone bracelets have. This Victorinox Swiss Army FieldForce Sport Titanium LE is an absolutely magnificent timepiece.
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#12 · (Edited)
Within hours of the press release of the Victorinox Swiss Army FieldForce Sport Titanium LE, I was online ordering this watch from the Victorinox Canadian website. I've owned a couple of their watches and have never been disappointed with the reliability and value that comes with any Swiss Army/Victorinox product. I've now had this particular watch since the first week of Dec/2020. It is an absolutely striking watch to look at, exceptionally legible, it keeps fantastic time, it's incredibly light weight and it receives compliments on a regular basis. Like all of my working watches I replace the factory wristbands with a silicone wristband. There's nothing wrong with the factory rubber band that comes with the watch, I just like the suppleness, durability and feel that silicone bracelets have. This Victorinox Swiss Army FieldForce Sport Titanium LE is an absolutely magnificent timepiece.
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Hey, Charlie, looks like I missed your post !

That's quite a cutie that you've got there, I particularly like how the red bezel, black dial and brushed titanium do associate themselves. And they did a good job at highlighting that with the red on the applied numerals reflective outer periphery. They did play with those on most of the Fieldforces, and I'm very fond on how the gold fuses with the yellow lume on my 241848.

Now they do have a 21 mm lugs width (like most VSA) which reduces a bit the strap choices, and though pretty, the titanium limited edition is significantly more expensive than their default model. Yet, if you're pleased by it on the everyday use, that's what matters ! 😃
The Ronda 715 (Swiss version) in my VSA eats battery like crazy, none of the replacement batteries lasted past 2.5 years.
The Ronda 715 is given for 60 months (5 years) battery duration in the factory specs ; and I've had similar level ISA movements which outperformed their specs on a VSA. So if yours doesn't even reach 5 years, it's probable there's an issue with your watch or with its movement. :unsure:

Do note however that the Fieldforce's movement is a Ronda 517, not a 715 ; and that the factory specs are 3 years and a half.

I found this thread while looking for the new Swiss Army Heritage models. Hodinkee has a review but that’s about it. They look good value to me, I might have to snap one up after Christmas…
Ooh, a new line !

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Most interesting I must say ! This one looks like a fusion of the Fieldforce GMT dial and of the old VSA Lancers. It's without the GMT hand, without applied numerals, without the bezel and with a 40 mm diameter ; thus the lower price ($300 vs 325). The lume has been spread less generously as well, though the Fieldforce are quite notable in that regard. Their black dials models do have something of the Hamilton Khaki quartz in their aesthetics (the inner dial dots and the 1/3s indexes in particular).

Image

But I quite like that 40 mm choice, it seems Victorinox might've heard our feedback about some of its watches being slightly too big. And otherwise, it seems to have the same straps than the Fieldforces (which are quite good) (EDIT : the straps seem different), and to still feature a sapphire crystal and a protected crown guard. So I agree with the value it might have indeed.

However, I'm having trouble finding information on the movement. Supposedly, there aren't 6' dates 3 handers in Ronda's Powertech line, and I didn't find manual links for the Swiss Army heritage line yet. So it's quite the mystery ! 😃

EDIT :
apparently, according to Hodinkee, that's a Ronda 715. That's quite surprising since it's a movement they use for watches a bit higher in their line-up (the Maverick, the INOX), but that's also one that was historically present in some of their Lancers. So if that information is correct, that's quite a good movement for this line ! :cool:
 
#10 ·
The Ronda 715 (Swiss version) in my VSA eats battery like crazy, none of the replacement batteries lasted past 2.5 years.
 
#11 ·
I found this thread while looking for the new Swiss Army Heritage models. Hodinkee has a review but that’s about it. They look good value to me, I might have to snap one up after Christmas…
 
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#13 ·
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#14 · (Edited)
They seem to be only available for North America (USA + Canada), with the exception of Mexico. Unlike some USA limited series (such as the Fieldforce titanium), they aren't announced as being NA exclusive though. So that line being quite recent (it seems to have been launched early November), it's likely it'll eventually end on some of the other world regions. :)

Another review (well, more like a collection preview) from Everyday Carry :

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The Ronda 715 seems confirmed, and so is the PVD coating for the black cases versions. Dunno where they had they info though, so more in depth reviews should be awaited. 🔎
 
#15 ·
I just had a reply from Victorinox about availability and they said it was only designed for the North American and Canadian markets and won’t be available anywhere else :(
 
  • Wow
Reactions: Trias
#16 ·
Wow, I didn't expect that.

Quite the bad choice, IMO, they had a watch that combined a bit of the Fieldforce, and a bit of the worldwide popular Lancers, they could've sold it worldwide without doubt. Yet, they may listen to the fans if enough people ask for it ; or even consider expanding the sales zones if the units sell well in NA.

And even if they didn't, I wonder if they would refuse to ship if abroad on their US online shop. :unsure:
 
#18 · (Edited)
I would as well. And hearing about Victorinox's plans about it, since they didn't communicate about it being an NA exclusive, while they had done so for the titanium Fieldforce (249168).

Now the Heritage line is extremely recent, so (with the notable exception of Hodinkee), it's probable the watch people didn't have enough time to review it. So, so far that's all we've got :

Reviews :
Previews :
IMO it's quite likely we're going to have some tests in the next weeks, as the two last sites mentioned regularly feature reviews.

Now, the more I do look at those watches, the more they remind me of a bezel less version of my Lancer. I've been wearing it not later than today, and the 24H secondary chapter looks extremely alike the Heritages' one, only completed by mini-arrow to fill the additional millimeter compared to the diameter of the Lancer.

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Kind of a family resemblance, isn't it ? 😃
 
#25 · (Edited)
edit
Disregard - I misread the movement number as 715 instead of 517. it’s early… My bad 🤦.


Hey @Trias excellent review! I just found this review, nice job 👍. As others have suggested the movement in your watch has been replaced by someone, that’s the one-jewel version (commonly referred to as “Harley Ronda” or “Swiss parts version”) assembled at their facility in Thailand I believe. VSA only uses the Swiss made version of movements in their watches.

To further complicate an already complex movement issue, watch parts retailers like esslinger sometimes advertise/sell a supposedly “Swiss made” version for slightly more money that is gold plated and has 5 jewels, but if you read closely in the item details it’s actually a Swiss parts version, and all are listed under “Harley Ronda”, so these are apparently not the Swiss Made version which according to caliber corner is sometimes listed by retailers as 715SM. I don’t know how to differentiate between those Swiss parts versions and the actual Swiss made version. Simple huh? Maybe a more knowledgeable watch movement person can weigh in on this for clarification.

It’s all understandable as getting an actual Swiss version (made, assembled, five-jewels & gold plated) is somewhat difficult (if not impossible) for a non dealer repair (and I can only assume costs more $), that is likely why the day-date windows don’t quite line up right on your watch.

When I buy used I always check the movement as the very first thing as sellers often don’t disclose that they have replaced the movement - or had it replaced at a non VSA authorized watch repair shop. That seems to often be the reason those VSA watches are listed so inexpensively on places like the ‘bay.

I rarely buy used though, often the prices are “too good to be true” which leads me to believe something is wrong, even if they look right in pictures, maybe the movement?

Since the 715 should last for multiple decades (does anyone know how long?) I can only guess that the issue on these was leaving a dead battery in the watch for too long and it leaked, or damaging the original movement while attempting a battery replacement, which I’ve read about many times.

Great, informative review though, an otherwise nice watch that I’ve looked at picking up myself from time to time!
 
#26 · (Edited)
As others have suggested the movement in your watch has been replaced by someone, that’s the one-jewel version (commonly referred to as “Harley Ronda” or “Swiss parts version”) assembled at their facility in Thailand I believe. VSA only uses the Swiss made version of movements in their watches.

To further complicate an already complex movement issue, watch parts retailers like esslinger sometimes advertise/sell a supposedly “Swiss made” version for slightly more money that is gold plated and has 5 jewels, but if you read closely in the item details it’s actually a Swiss parts version, and all are listed under “Harley Ronda”, so these are apparently not the Swiss Made version which according to caliber corner is sometimes listed by retailers as 715SM. I don’t know how to differentiate between those Swiss parts versions and the actual Swiss made version. Simple huh? Maybe a more knowledgeable watch movement person can weigh in on this for clarification.

It’s all understandable as getting an actual Swiss version (made, assembled, five-jewels & gold plated) is somewhat difficult (if not impossible) for a non dealer repair (and I can only assume costs more $), that is likely why the day-date windows don’t quite line up right on your watch.

When I buy used I always check the movement as the very first thing as sellers often don’t disclose that they have replaced the movement - or had it replaced at a non VSA authorized watch repair shop. That seems to often be the reason those VSA watches are listed so inexpensively on places like the ‘bay.

I rarely buy used though, often the prices are “too good to be true” which leads me to believe something is wrong, even if they look right in pictures, maybe the movement?

Since the 715 should last for multiple decades (does anyone know how long?) I can only guess that the issue on these was leaving a dead battery in the watch for too long and it leaked, or damaging the original movement while attempting a battery replacement, which I’ve read about many times.
Hey Sabior.

Indeed, the Fieldforce features a 517 Ronda movement, from their Powertech line, and not the famous 715. Yet your insight is interesting regardless, as it uncovers part of the veil regarding Swiss movements. As for your question, what I've read it's a matter of labeling :

  • Swiss made movements : have > 50% parts made in Switzerland.
  • Swiss parts movements : have < 50%.
  • The place of assembly is generally signaled somewhere on the inside part of the case.
Which hints you could completely have a movement featuring more than half of its parts produced in Switzerland, BUT assembled in Asia.

My own Lancer 100 green is an example of that : Swiss Made, but « Far East Assy » (assembly) inside the case.
LG-100 GREEN - Movement


Which leads us about the reasons why the prices of the unit did vary wildly, even when VSA started off : some are assembled in China, some were sold on the grey market, and finally as in most cases the added value/margin of the seller and manufacturer are way bigger than one would suspect.

Hence why my British grandfather got one in an American airport at a price so low he always suspected it was a fake. And thus, gave it to the teenager I was. Surprisingly enough, and despite being assembled in China, it outperformed our expectancies for many years both in accuracy, markers-hitting, and battery consumption. And thus was the best quartz that I had for a long time...😜



Hey @Trias excellent review! I just found this review, nice job 👍.

Great, informative review though, an otherwise nice watch that I’ve looked at picking up myself from time to time!
The Fieldforce is one of the most legible watches I've seen so far. Yet, I wish they hadn't stretched the dial so much, but you know the saying « There is no such thing as perfection. » :unsure:
 
#28 ·
Hmmm, interesting with that Lancer, that got me thinking and I decided to pull up the Swiss Ordinance for what it takes for a watch to be labeled “Swiss Made”, Fedlex this is the latest version of the law strengthening the requirements, but most (if not all) elements of the previous version(s) have been brought forward. From what I can gather reading this (and I am by no means any kind of expert) for Swiss Made to be on the dial the movement would have to meet the requirements of swiss made which includes/included being assembled in switzerland as per the ordinance.

Is it possible that the movement in that Lancer had been replaced? Speaking for myself, I’ve owned several Swiss army/Victorinox watches over the years, new and used, some from that time period, and have yet to encounter one with a non-Swiss version of movement.
I think the family member who gave it to me must've acquired it in the 90', so near their first production years (which is also hinted by the yellow second hand). He then gifted it to me around the year 1999. Since then he expressed that he didn't know if it was an original or not, so it's unlikely he had the movement swapped inbetween. I've been the sole owner since then, and had no major maintenance performed until 2022 (where the hands and circuit were replaced).

Image

Of course we don't know what happened during the short gap between his purchase and the production. But considering the visible parts have all signs of authenticity, and that the hands alignment remained perfect (which hints of an untouched machine assembly) before the maintenance that was performed, I've got good reasons to think it was indeed the original movement. 🔎

Yet, your question bears the answer itself : if Fedlex had its requirements strengthened lately, it means that they were looser before. And didn't necessarily required an assembly in Switzerland 30 years ago, when the unit was produced. 💡
I didn’t order any watches from Swiss Army until ~2003 when I ordered my Officer’s LS #24575, I still have it, it has a Swiss ETA 251.272 since it’s a chronograph. But I do currently own a pocket watch from that early time period (subsequently bought used), it has a ISA 1198/12 that is clearly marked Swiss Made on the movement, and of course the dial.

Here’s a look inside:
View attachment 18299955

As to the “swiss made” movements being sold at esslinger, I am tempted to order one and see what comes in… My guess is that it is just mislabeled on the site since the gold-plated five-jewel version is swiss made and the one-jewel nickel version is swiss parts and the details on those indicate they are swiss parts versions. I just don’t know and I really don’t need a 715 movement :) I wonder if anyone else has ordered one of these and can speak to that?
Well if even we watch addicts have trouble defining its whereabouts, you imagine how well 10 000+ references resellers would ? I myself went through a lot of mistaken and sometimes misleading information when gathering info for my lancer thread, with people honestly thinking all had a 715 Ronda just because the gold plated version was. Yet, in fact most were ISA1198, which was only 1 jewel, and not always assembled in Switzerland. And... which nonetheless made for excellent units. 😜
 
#29 ·
I think the family member who gave it to me must've acquired it in the 90', so near their first production years (which is also hinted by the yellow second hand). He then gifted it to me around the year 1999. Since then he expressed that he didn't know if it was an original or not, so it's unlikely he had the movement swapped inbetween. I've been the sole owner since then, and had no major maintenance performed until 2022 (where the hands and circuit were replaced).

Image

Of course we don't know what happened during the short gap between his purchase and the production. But considering the visible parts have all signs of authenticity, and that the hands alignment remained perfect (which hints of an untouched machine assembly) before the maintenance that was performed, I've got good reasons to think it was indeed the original movement. 🔎

Yet, your question bears the answer itself : if Fedlex had its requirements strengthened lately, it means that they were looser before. And didn't necessarily required an assembly in Switzerland 30 years ago, when the unit was produced. 💡

Well if even we watch addicts have trouble defining its whereabouts, you imagine how well 10 000+ references resellers would ? I myself went through a lot of mistaken and sometimes misleading information when gathering info for my lancer thread, with people honestly thinking all had a 715 Ronda just because the gold plated version was. Yet, in fact most were ISA1198, which was only 1 jewel, and not always assembled in Switzerland. And... which nonetheless made for excellent units. 😜
You have done quite extensive research on your review, very well done! I was actually unaware that the Lancer series was produced prior to 1998, I thought it was one of the watches released around the time of the Swiss Army Equipped Campaign, but clearly there is a photo of one with 96 printed on the caseback so the proof is in the pudding as they say :) The earliest capture of swissarmy.com on the wayback machine is in 1997, and at that time SABI didn't list anything except the sports line series of watches. However the SwissArmyBrands.com site (apparently yet another for Swiss Army/Victorinox, Yay /sarcasm) had them slightly earlier I think. VictorinoxAG and Victorinox.com has the V7 Sub and variants only in that time frame.

This is and interesting topic, maybe deserving of it's own thread, trying to research it though leads to a lot of dead ends... I cannot read swiss, so I can't go back through the PDF archives. I did find a site with the 1992 version of the Ord/Law, so here is that: WIPO Lex it states that assembly would be required as well. What assembly meant at that time isn't clear since there doesn't seem to be a definition, but it would have had to meet the whatever requirement and would have been therefore labeled swiss/swiss made/swiss assembly.

My spidey sense is that assembly in switzerland was most likely in the law from the 1972 version, but I can't seem to find an english (at least reference) version prior to 1992 at the moment, I'll keep looking though.

You'r right about the watch, everything else seems to be legit, we know these were made for SABI at Xantia though, which would mean they were made in switzerland and would have had to conform to the requirements of the "swiss made" label.

Yet, your question bears the answer itself : if Fedlex had its requirements strengthened lately, it means that they were looser before. And didn't necessarily required an assembly in Switzerland 30 years ago, when the unit was produced. 💡
According to FHS the main thing changed in the more recent version was the 60% requirement. It appears that items inserted were brought forward from previous versions, possibly as early as '72, and other items were amended. I'm no legal expert though.
 
#30 ·
ou have done quite extensive research on your review, very well done! I was actually unaware that the Lancer series was produced prior to 1998, I thought it was one of the watches released around the time of the Swiss Army Equipped Campaign, but clearly there is a photo of one with 96 printed on the caseback so the proof is in the pudding as they say :) The earliest capture of swissarmy.com on the wayback machine is in 1997, and at that time SABI didn't list anything except the sports line series of watches. However the SwissArmyBrands.com site (apparently yet another for Swiss Army/Victorinox, Yay /sarcasm) had them slightly earlier I think. VictorinoxAG and Victorinox.com has the V7 Sub and variants only in that time frame.
It must be indeed around 96 at least, if not before. It's hard to trace back from the internet what was done mostly out of it as you say. Discussing it with you makes me realize that would require more digging than what little I did. There's room for improvement. ^^
This is and interesting topic, maybe deserving of it's own thread, trying to research it though leads to a lot of dead ends... I cannot read swiss, so I can't go back through the PDF archives. I did find a site with the 1992 version of the Ord/Law, so here is that: WIPO Lex it states that assembly would be required as well. What assembly meant at that time isn't clear since there doesn't seem to be a definition, but it would have had to meet the whatever requirement and would have been therefore labeled swiss/swiss made/swiss assembly.

My spidey sense is that assembly in switzerland was most likely in the law from the 1972 version, but I can't seem to find an english (at least reference) version prior to 1992 at the moment, I'll keep looking though.
I'm a french speaker. What I do read here (from your WIPO Lex link)

Art. 42) Apposition de l’indication de provenance
a. Sur les boîtes de montres 1 Est considérée comme suisse la boîte de montre qui a subi en Suisse une opération essentielle de fabrication au moins (à savoir l’étampage ou le tournage ou le polissage), qui a été montée et contrôlée en Suisse et dont 50 pour cent au moins du coût de fabrication (valeur de la matière exclue) sont représentés par les opérations effectuées en Suisse.

is that the watch's case could be labelled « Swiss Made » as long as it has undergone a key manufacturing step in Switzerland, if it has been assembled in Switzerland, and which as least 50% of the production value was represented by operations performed in Switzerland.

But that applies for the case, and does not mention the watch as a whole ! So that leaves us with :
  • A watch case made in Switzerland, with a movement made in Switzerland, but assembled elsewhere.
  • A watch case made in Switzerland, but with a movement made elsewhere.
  • A watch case 51% made in Switzerland, with a movement made elswhere, assembled elsewhere. 😜
And now I wonder where ISA had its movement assembled. 😃


You'r right about the watch, everything else seems to be legit, we know these were made for SABI at Xantia though, which would mean they were made in switzerland and would have had to conform to the requirements of the "swiss made" label.
Yep. With all the read in between the lines that it might allow. ^^
 
#31 ·
Is this French? I wasn’t sure, I can’t speak or read any of these languages :(

however I used the translate function (thank you technology) and was able to convert it.

I'm a french speaker. What I do read here (from your WIPO Lex link)

Art. 42) Apposition de l’indication de provenance
a. Sur les boîtes de montres 1 Est considérée comme suisse la boîte de montre qui a subi en Suisse une opération essentielle de fabrication au moins (à savoir l’étampage ou le tournage ou le polissage), qui a été montée et contrôlée en Suisse et dont 50 pour cent au moins du coût de fabrication (valeur de la matière exclue) sont représentés par les opérations effectuées en Suisse.

is that the watch's case could be labelled « Swiss Made » as long as it has undergone a key manufacturing step in Switzerland, if it has been assembled in Switzerland, and which as least 50% of the production value was represented by operations performed in Switzerland.

But that applies for the case, and does not mention the watch as a whole ! So that leaves us with :
  • A watch case made in Switzerland, with a movement made in Switzerland, but assembled elsewhere.
  • A watch case made in Switzerland, but with a movement made elsewhere.
  • A watch case 51% made in Switzerland, with a movement made elswhere, assembled elsewhere. 😜
And now I wonder where ISA had its movement assembled. 😃


Yep. With all the read in between the lines that it might allow. ^^
I kind of see what you’re saying but I think at the very least the movement would have to meet the Swiss made criteria and I really am no expert here, but when I look at article 2 (definition of a Swiss movement) subparagraph (a) was assembled in Switzerland…

here’s how it translates for me:

“a Who was assembled in Switzerland; b Which was controlled by the manufacturer in Switzerland etc. Who is in Swiss manufacturing for at least 50 per cent of the value of all the documents”

So I’m left to conclude that the movement had to be 50% made in Switzerland, assembled in Switzerland, and controlled by the mfg.

I mean I haven’t ever seen or heard of any other brand of Swiss made watch with a movement that was labeled “assembled somewhere else” and marked as Swiss made. Of course I could be wrong, but the empirical seems to validate that imo.

That is why I asked if maybe the movement had been replaced. I mean it apparently wasn’t bought at an AD since your relative thought it might be fake, it’s more likely imo that the watch is authentic but for some reason the movement was replaced prior to purchase.

either way, I don’t know if it really matters at this point, it’s a nice watch and has served you well so I’m not sure a Swiss made movement would have improved upon that.
 
#37 ·
I understand your thinking, I believe however that you are trying to make the item whole. I don't really have a dog-in-the-fight so to speak, not having a Lancer and not having any Swiss Made watch with anything other than a Swiss movement in it.

Here's what I can deduce from the Ordinance.

Ref: Fedlex

1. This is the Ordinance of 1971, with amendments which have been denoted.

2. In Article 1 (Definition of a Swiss Watch) subparagraph (a) it states: its movement is Swiss. This was modified in 1992 by RO 1992 1229.

I cannot find a grace period for this. It does state the following (excerpt):
"1 The name “Switzerland”, indications such as “Swiss”, “Swiss product”, “made
in Switzerland”, “Swiss quality” or other denominations which contain the name
“Switzerland” or which may be confused with it should only be used
for Swiss watches or movements.
2 If the watch is not Swiss, the names appearing in the 1st paragraph may
nevertheless be affixed to Swiss movements provided that they are not
not visible to the buyer of the watch."

This has nothing to do with what we are talking about here, it's talking about putting a Swiss movement in a non-Swiss watch.

3. For the five year period you cited, I'm assuming you are referring to this:
"Undertakings that have already lawfully and consistently used one of the designations protected under Article 3 paragraphs 1 and 4 prior to this amendment coming into force are authorised to continue to use this designation for five years after this amendment has come into force, even if the casing up and final inspection are carried out by the manufacturer abroad."
This is dealing with designations - as non-Swiss Made watchmakers - using the designations of Swiss, Swiss cross, et al. More or less dealing with all those "other" makers using the swiss cross and words like "Swiss Quality" on their watches.

4. Almost everything we are talking about here is the opposite of what this whole thing is about, apparently there were some Swiss watch makers that were labeling movements as Swiss, or Swiss made so that they could offer more affordable Swiss Made watches to consumers, but the assembly of said movements were not actually completed in Switzerland. That is why imo they added that the part of assembly being required in Switzerland.

I don't believe at that point that there was an issue with putting "assembled somewhere else" movements in Swiss Made watches, since if the movement was assembled somewhere else the watch wasn't actually "Swiss Made".

I understand what you are saying with the calendar wheel and lining up of the hands, but these are simple swaps for a watch repair person. That's why I think the watch is probably legit, but the movement was swapped from the original, along with the calendar wheel to a non-swiss version of movement.

I'm not certain I have any more to add, if you want to find out with absolute certainty (or at least get some other opinions) you could always start a thread in a more visible forum that has more knowledgeable folks than myself on this issue.
 
#38 ·
3. For the five year period you cited, I'm assuming you are referring to this:
"Undertakings that have already lawfully and consistently used one of the designations protected under Article 3 paragraphs 1 and 4 prior to this amendment coming into force are authorised to continue to use this designation for five years after this amendment has come into force, even if the casing up and final inspection are carried out by the manufacturer abroad."
This is dealing with designations - as non-Swiss Made watchmakers - using the designations of Swiss, Swiss cross, et al. More or less dealing with all those "other" makers using the swiss cross and words like "Swiss Quality" on their watches.
I don't understand it that way.
In the original language, what I get is that enterprises that produce watches with Swiss movements may still use the Swiss Made designation (or assimilated designations) even if the movement wasn't cased nor inspected in Switzerland for five more years. So IMO it refers to Swiss compagnies outsourcing part of the process abroad.

Anyway, we're both non experts in the matter, but I'd like to conclude with three points :
I understand your thinking, I believe however that you are trying to make the item whole. I don't really have a dog-in-the-fight so to speak, not having a Lancer and not having any Swiss Made watch with anything other than a Swiss movement in it.
  • It's true I'm rooting for the idea that my watch is fully original, probably due to the amount of time it journeyed with me. However, even if subjectively so, even if the movement had been swapped (let's say that the first watchmaker which acquired it spotted a faulty movement and somewhat refurbished it) in my eyes it doesn't lessen how good the watch performed, movement included, and how enjoyable the experience it provided was.

  • However, to me the simple fact the law had to be updated in 1992 with that 5 years delay given to the manufacturers (I still understand that part differently), proves that the manufacters weren't fully compliant to this date. Because if they were, then the whole update would be unrequired to begin with. So while your interpretation of the first parts of the law were more accurate than mine at first, my point since my last post is that the law wasn't in fact fully applied at first in the real world. Hence the update.

  • Lastly, as I said I'm open to both hypothesis ; and I think that time itself may provide an answer : users tend to provide me with pics of their Lancers, movement included. If my unit happens to be the only one with a Far East Ass'y, then the probability for it to have been modified after production will increase. But if more users have some non swiss assembled ISAs, then it means VSA's process wasn't fully compliant untill they switched towards Ronda. So in a way, time will tell.

Now, let's conclude that we agree to disagree : even if we root for different explanations, you made good points, pleasantly sourced. And so I learned a few things from our discussion. So even if I don't fully agree with your interpretation, allow me to still put a like to your post, to thank you for the interesting exercise that was that debate.
Image
 
#39 ·
I learned some stuff as well, and I still have more to learn about the early days of SABI/Victorinox. I can tell you’re passionate about the brand as well, that seems to be somewhat rare on here. Thanks for the debate and opportunity to learn more!