I am interested in the Ray and Mako. I cannot believe what a low price they have for the rave reviews everyone is giving them. Good movement, great lume, striking appearance, quality craftsmanship... is it too good to be true? How is this possible?
Bruce Wayne
Why are Orient prices so good?
1 reading
They make nice watches and use their own movements.
They are an excellent value, especially the more reasonable priced models.
Amazon.com normally has excellent pricing on the line.
Check out these two:
Orient Automatic Dive Watch CEM75004B (Orange Bezel Mako II): Watches: Amazon.com
Orient Men's Orange Mako XL 200m Diver's Watch 21 Jewels CEM75001M: Watches: Amazon.com
They are an excellent value, especially the more reasonable priced models.
Amazon.com normally has excellent pricing on the line.
Check out these two:
Orient Automatic Dive Watch CEM75004B (Orange Bezel Mako II): Watches: Amazon.com
Orient Men's Orange Mako XL 200m Diver's Watch 21 Jewels CEM75001M: Watches: Amazon.com
1. Japanese manufacturing is highly automated and efficient.
2. Orient owns most of the necessary equipment for watchmaking, if not their parent company Seiko will take care of it. No need for 3rd party contractors
3. The Japanese are more competitive than the Swiss
4. Orient's lower end models use mineral crystal, and movements lack handwinding and hacking - this saves cost.
5. Most of Orient's bracelets have inferior fit and finish compared to entry level Swiss
2. Orient owns most of the necessary equipment for watchmaking, if not their parent company Seiko will take care of it. No need for 3rd party contractors
3. The Japanese are more competitive than the Swiss
4. Orient's lower end models use mineral crystal, and movements lack handwinding and hacking - this saves cost.
5. Most of Orient's bracelets have inferior fit and finish compared to entry level Swiss
I think there prices are where they SHOULD be for what you get, same with seiko your not just paying additional for a name on the dial.
Relax rejzor, I'm not criticising Orient, I'm just thinking about how they can sell watches for so cheap. Movements without handwinding and hacking have less parts and are thus slightly cheaper to produce. They are also quite reliable (less warranty costs). As for bracelets, my Orient Star Classic's bracelet is nice, but it falls short of Swiss watches I've played with - e.g. my Oris and TAG (but those are far costlier watches).
To be honest, after getting to know a lot of Orient watches, I've started thinking that some Seiko watches are slightly overpriced... But I'm not going to open a whole new can of worms.
Cheers,
George
Cheers,
George
Like you said, "they cost significantly more". OrientStar's also cost more and i bet bracelets on these are even better. But for the given price, even low end Orient's have excellent bracelets.
The real question is why do the other brands charge so much more than Orient?
It is business, as such Orient is selling their product at a fair price calculated to gain a reasonable operations margin. Are the other brands hampered by excessive overhead costs, excessive marketing costs, excessive raw material costs? I doubt that Orient pays less for stainless steel and other raw materials than other brands, so the answer must be that the others are burdened by excessive excess.
I have 10 Orients, so I am somewhat burdened by excess myself....but I think I can handle it
)
It is business, as such Orient is selling their product at a fair price calculated to gain a reasonable operations margin. Are the other brands hampered by excessive overhead costs, excessive marketing costs, excessive raw material costs? I doubt that Orient pays less for stainless steel and other raw materials than other brands, so the answer must be that the others are burdened by excessive excess.
I have 10 Orients, so I am somewhat burdened by excess myself....but I think I can handle it
)
The bracelets are not good at all on the lower end models like the mako. They use mineral crystal and the bezel is pretty useless because it requires 1000 ft lbs of torque to turn it. With this said, it is still a great value for the price.
Mako is a 120 EUR Automatic. Do you seriously expect a sapphire on such watch? I don't, but some apparently do... and bezel on my Mako turns effortlessly. It has just enough resistance so it doesn't rotate by itself but when i want to move it it goes around easily. And this is on a brand new watch that has no wear on the bezel mechanism. But thats Mako 1, the first version. Newer ones may have stiffer bezel rotation...
I appreciate all the insight. Thanks for confirming the feeling I had about the many positive Orient reviews. I couldnt wait any longer not to commit to the fantastic prices on this brand. Tonight I decided to join the Orient club. Ordered the Blue Ray!
A lot of good points have been raised, but I suspect that there are other reasons for Orient's quality/price ratio:
1) They have been making mechanical watches for a very long period of time, so not only are their development and tooling costs amortized over a long history, they may also have a human resources legacy to rely on. Some Japanese companies have a corporate culture which retains expert workers for long periods that are unusual in the West, and since mechanical watches do require human assemblers at key steps in the production process, I think that has helped their well-known consistency.
2) Orient is owned by the Seiko Epson Corporation which is actually a different corporate entity from the Seiko Watch Group that makes Seiko Watches [although they have some common shareholders and supply each other with components]. Seiko Epson, being primarily focused on "industrial" items like printers, imaging semiconductors and printed circuit boards, spends even less money on marketing than Seiko Watch Group [which itself is not big on marketing compared to the Swiss]. They don't have the brand name recognition and celebrity endorsements so can't charge the same markups that many of the Swiss brands do.
1) They have been making mechanical watches for a very long period of time, so not only are their development and tooling costs amortized over a long history, they may also have a human resources legacy to rely on. Some Japanese companies have a corporate culture which retains expert workers for long periods that are unusual in the West, and since mechanical watches do require human assemblers at key steps in the production process, I think that has helped their well-known consistency.
2) Orient is owned by the Seiko Epson Corporation which is actually a different corporate entity from the Seiko Watch Group that makes Seiko Watches [although they have some common shareholders and supply each other with components]. Seiko Epson, being primarily focused on "industrial" items like printers, imaging semiconductors and printed circuit boards, spends even less money on marketing than Seiko Watch Group [which itself is not big on marketing compared to the Swiss]. They don't have the brand name recognition and celebrity endorsements so can't charge the same markups that many of the Swiss brands do.
Orient is also strictly focused on mechanical watches only. They don't make any quartz or digital. So that probably also has something to do with it.
Brand reputation means a lot. A lot of expensive brands don't have their cost justified. Likewise, Orient found its niche as a quality for low price reputation. I heard they tried changing it - getting rid of the 50% coupon on orient watch USA for example. But then they are put in a new league of competitors and I'm not quite sure their watches would be as appealing. So, less profit margin, but making up for it in units sold vs more profit but less volume.
Congrats on the purchase and I understand your questioning of the low price of them. I was dubious of all the love that the Mako gets and thoroughly expected it to be a little bit shoddy and cheap feeling when I finally took the plunge and bought one. When it arrived I was genuinely astounded at the high quality of it. It shames some of the watches I've tried on that cost five times as much and it is glued to my wrist now. You won't regret buying it. It has certainly opened my eyes to new possibilities and I'm looking to buy a Bambino this month now too.
Orients may be affordable, but they are not cheap. they are of very decent quality at a fairly low price. Orients might as well be invisible to me before. then when i joined the forums, i wondered why there is so much love for them. i investigated and found them to be of good quality and actually desirable. since i have no dedicated dress watch i decided to get a bambino. from that point on i was sold on Orient. i have been converted from an Orient snob to a fanboy.
For the money, the bracelets for the Mako XL and the Ray are excellent. Relatively heavy, substantial and wide. Very comfortable on my wrist, and they look good. Probably the nicest bracelet I've ever felt on an inexpensive watch is the stock bracelet on the Seiko Monster. The bracelets for the Make and Ray are close to that, in my opinion. Not quite there, but close. And when when you're buying a Ray for $125, or a Mako XL for just a bit more than that, that is saying something. I don't know if the original Mako bracelet is inferior. I don't own one.
For the money, the bracelets for the Mako XL and the Ray are excellent. Relatively heavy, substantial and wide. Very comfortable on my wrist, and they look good. Probably the nicest bracelet I've ever felt on an inexpensive watch is the stock bracelet on the Seiko Monster. The bracelets for the Make and Ray are close to that, in my opinion. Not quite there, but close. And when when you're buying a Ray for $125, or a Mako XL for just a bit more than that, that is saying something. I don't know if the original Mako bracelet is inferior. I don't own one.
AW: Why are Orient prices so good?
If you are looking for a mako with sapphire and superluminova then checkout www.orientuhren.de
I bought my mako there but had to buy the sapphire from yobokies because Mr Keller didn't offer it yet. Now he is offering all the mako models with sapphire and superluminova upgrade for about 200 €.
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If you are looking for a mako with sapphire and superluminova then checkout www.orientuhren.de
I bought my mako there but had to buy the sapphire from yobokies because Mr Keller didn't offer it yet. Now he is offering all the mako models with sapphire and superluminova upgrade for about 200 €.
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Re: AW: Why are Orient prices so good?
My only issue with that site is the 19% tax that's included, even if you order from outside Euro Zone. Im assuming it's because he had to pay the 19% when importing/buying his watches pre-modification and he has to pass along the cost to his customers. It's reasonable, but still bumps the price up to 300$ USD + shipping instead of 250$ without the VAT.
My only issue with that site is the 19% tax that's included, even if you order from outside Euro Zone. Im assuming it's because he had to pay the 19% when importing/buying his watches pre-modification and he has to pass along the cost to his customers. It's reasonable, but still bumps the price up to 300$ USD + shipping instead of 250$ without the VAT.
Re: AW: Why are Orient prices so good?
Turns out the 19% is removed at the payment window. Good news.
Turns out the 19% is removed at the payment window. Good news.
Re: AW: Why are Orient prices so good?
Orient's bracelets aren't that bad. They certainly aren't any worse than the stock bracelets that ship with the Seiko SKX series of divers, which also have hollow end links and use a pin and collar system to hold the links together. That being said there are plenty of great bracelets out there from Strapcode, Yobokies and other vendors and if you're willing to spend another $60 you can get an excellent bracelet with screwed together links. I don't know if there are any bracelets with solid end links for the Mako/Ray. I put a Strapcode 22mm Super Oyster on my Seiko SKX last week and if I can get it off of my wrist I'll see if it fits on my Mako or my Ray.
Orient's bracelets aren't that bad. They certainly aren't any worse than the stock bracelets that ship with the Seiko SKX series of divers, which also have hollow end links and use a pin and collar system to hold the links together. That being said there are plenty of great bracelets out there from Strapcode, Yobokies and other vendors and if you're willing to spend another $60 you can get an excellent bracelet with screwed together links. I don't know if there are any bracelets with solid end links for the Mako/Ray. I put a Strapcode 22mm Super Oyster on my Seiko SKX last week and if I can get it off of my wrist I'll see if it fits on my Mako or my Ray.
Orient makes great watches and they're great values. Too good to be true? No. You're not getting a $4000 Seamaster for $125. There are a number of differences between a Ray and your typical expensive Swiss dive watch. The latter will have a sapphire crystal, possibly a display caseback, solid end links, a better clasp, a hacking and handwinding movement that runs at 28.8k beats per minute, the movement will have tighter accuracy specifications, it will probably be more water resistant, and the polished bits on the Ray's bracelet would probably be separate pieces of a Swiss bracelet. Basically for an extra $1000+ you get something that's somewhat more complicated, built to tighter tolerances, and at least in the case of the crystal, built using better materials. You can decide for yourself whether or not that's worth it to you. To most people it certainly isn't.
But if you compare the Ray to something in its own price category, then I think it's a clear win. Like an Invicta Pro Diver. Orient has much more watchmaking heritage, Invicta has had horrible quality control problems in the past, Orients seem to be much more accurate out of the box, and the Invicta is basically just an exact copy of a Rolex Submariner with none of its own style.
(Note re: the above about Swiss watches. Just because they have certain features doesn't mean they're better in every way. For example, with the higher beat rate, they require expensive servicing much more frequently. No thanks, I'll go with the lower beat rate all day long.)
But if you compare the Ray to something in its own price category, then I think it's a clear win. Like an Invicta Pro Diver. Orient has much more watchmaking heritage, Invicta has had horrible quality control problems in the past, Orients seem to be much more accurate out of the box, and the Invicta is basically just an exact copy of a Rolex Submariner with none of its own style.
(Note re: the above about Swiss watches. Just because they have certain features doesn't mean they're better in every way. For example, with the higher beat rate, they require expensive servicing much more frequently. No thanks, I'll go with the lower beat rate all day long.)
I am totally blown away. Got my Blue Ray yesterday and it is solid, just as many of you have said. The dial is ridiculously good looking in the dark blue, and so far it is running flawlessly. So long as it continues running well, I will continue looking into Orient. Awesome, just awesome. Glad I purchased.
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